INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: Srishti Manipur Tun review

First, let me say that I am far from a sitar expert. I've been playing for eight months and have only two other sitars to use as reference points � the generic "standard" model that I bought last December and an acquaintance's Rikki Ram that I was able to play for about a half an hour one day in March! (Sitars are hard to find in Iowa.) Regardless, I hope that some of you find this information helpful if you decide to buy a new instrument.

When Sitars, Etc. went online, I was immediately drawn to the Manipur. The intricate and complex detail is characteristic of what I like best about Indian art in general. After awhile, I was torn between it and the Jaipur, which was in the lead for several months. Sometimes first impressions are best, so as my fund hit the target amount I finally decided on the Manipur.

I sent Lars a brief email about my intended purchase and asked him to call me the next day. He did, which provided a break from a mind- numbing conference call. We chatted about the instrument and he suggested that I order online, which I did when I got home. Later that night, the phone rang - it was Lars, playing Yaman on the Manipur! (By the way, Lars is a very good player, though he probably won't admit it himself.) He asked if I minded the fact that this particular instrument had an open jawari. For me, it's all about the buzz and the Ravi sound, so it was a perfect match. It's always been clear to me that this business is a labor of love for Lars - he cares about the instruments and is committed to his customers, and will not sell something that he wouldn't want to own himself. The fact that he took an hour out of his day to make sure I was getting what I wanted was very impressive.

The upper toomba and accessories were shipped separately from the sitar. I gave Lars a hard time about this - the toomba box arrived on Monday in the mail, while the sitar wasn't scheduled to arrive until Friday via FedEx. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment! :-) The upper toomba arrived wrapped in a large printed Indian scarf - very classy - and was gorgeous. Actually seeing the detail and workmanship of the toomba let me know that I made the right choice. The accessory kit contained a main and tarb peg, a small amount of fret thread, a tarb hook, a pack of 'generic' strings, and a pack of Pyramid strings. I already have an oil box and both books that Lars sells, so he substituted a narka and a package of incense. Instead of the nag champa oil advertised on the site, Lars suggested a small bottle of Indian hair oil that Indrajit Banerjee uses, to which I agreed. I forgot to tell Lars the size of mizrab that I like so those are being sent separately.

Friday came and I was chomping the bit. The sitar had reached Chicago at 12:38 AM. I checked the FedEx site throughout the day and it wasn't- going -anywhere. I figured that the site was slow, but was a bit worried due to the summer heat. It never showed up on Friday. Lars called me that night, which was reassuring. Finally, it was loaded on a truck that night and delivered on Saturday morning. FedEx had put a nice hole in the back of the box but everything seemed intact.

I opened the box. The sitar was extremely well-packed using foam peanuts and larger pieces of foam at strategic support points. The case is a black fiberglass rocket ship shape with three locks, two snap-straps and a strap for carrying it on your shoulder. One lock is a combination lock, one has a key lock, and the other is large enough to utilize a padlock. The inside of the case is well-cushioned top and bottom and covered with a soft fluffy red material. My one- year old daughter will be walking any day now so a sturdy case is a must! Taped to the case were an envelope and a nag champa sachet bag. The enveloped contained a two- page thank you letter with unpacking, set up and general care instructions. Another nice personal touch - and the sachet is a great thing to have in my case.

Opening the case, I found the Manipur encased in a silky yellow fabric cover, with additional soft foam I carefully pulled out the instrument and was completely amazed. I was expecting something nice, but this instrument is truly beautiful and looks incredible in person. I won't go into too much detail here because you can see what this model looks like at Sitars, Etc., but believe me when I say that the pictures don't begin to do it justice.

I checked the finish for any bad spots due to the heat and I lucked out - it's perfect. The only problem - if it is a problem - was a broken tarb string. No big deal, in my opinion. I let the instrument sit for about four hours before fixing the tarb string. It was strung using a better-quality Indian set of strings, but I did take the MA string off and replaced it with a Pyramid. The pegs are very tight and well-seated in their holes, yet turn smoothly without slippage. The frets were shiny and only required a few minor adjustments for initial intonation. Also - and this isn't mentioned on the website - the sitar has string gags for the bass strings. Cool! After about 20 minutes of tuning, I was ready to play.

I have to say here that I'm a very good player - at eight months, who is? However, I'm amazed at how much better I sound with the Manipur, and with a lot less effort. The tone is pure and even up and down the neck and the bass strings sound fantastic (they were non-functional on my "standard"). My wife is not a musical person but immediately commented on how "substantial" this sitar sounds. This was the first thing I noticed when I played my friend's Rikki Ram - from what I remember, the Manipur sounds at least as good and probably better. I can also dig in as needed for volume. During my lessons my teacher has had me attack the strings fairly hard - to get a good motion in my right hand - and the standard sounded terrible, as if it were being overloaded, for lack of a better term. Meends are easier - I have a greater range, of course, but it seems like it requires less effort find and hit the right note. This sitar is quite simply a joy to play and I am looking forward to many years of enjoyment.

Back to the posts - I've seen many that focus on well-known names, finding a "perfect" professional instrument, etc. Let's be honest here, folks. My guess is that the overwhelming majority of people on this forum are amateurs (though very enthusiastic amateurs). We have day jobs and careers and play for our own personal enjoyment. We'll never tour or perform in Carnegie Hall. But, many of us are also accomplished musicians on other instruments and have high standards of quality. Spending this kind of money on an instrument of any sort is scary, particularly when you can't play it first, so it comes down to excellent customer service and a quality product. I believe that anyone here would be delighted to own a Sristhi � I know I am!

Whoops!

Pb

Send an email to the address listed in my profile here, and I'll send 'em your way.

If you have no way to post the pics on the Internet, send them to me at
enigmar @ pobox.com
and I will post them (no space before and after the "@" sign of course; I don't need more spam-bots harvesting my email.).

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Jeff (Aug 15, 2003 09:14 a.m.):
Someone else here on this forum just ordered a new Srishti. Let us know all about it when you give it a good playing.

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Even if they are new to playing sitar and wouldn't know a good sitar from a ukelele? :-)

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Stephen (Aug 15, 2003 02:43 p.m.):
Someone once told me that the Bee Gees would make a comeback.

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GREAT!!! Now I can dance with one hand on my hip and point goofishly towards the sky and NOT look like an idiot on Saturday nights.

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Jeff (Aug 15, 2003 05:32 p.m.):

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Stephen (Aug 15, 2003 02:43 p.m.):
Someone once told me that the Bee Gees would make a comeback.

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GREAT!!! Now I can dance with one hand on my hip and point goofishly towards the sky and NOT look like an idiot on Saturday nights.

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Just make sure and check your temperature. . .

Yikes what a week! TGIF!! Such a cruddy week, and on top of that, I got to sit here and wait on a new sitar?? How am I going to stand it?

I had to crop and lower the resolution a bit so the pics wouldn't be too big.

I'm getting the Strishti Standard; I'm just a beginner after all. I think its a good choice for me.

But i liked the review. .

Jan

However, I don't think a tabla machine counts as an instrument. .hee hee hee.

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Matt (Aug 18, 2003 10:52 p.m.):
As a post-script, my wife has forbidden me from purchasing any more musical instruments.

However, I don't think a tabla machine counts as an instrument. .hee hee hee.

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Hello Matt,
I had a great mentor, James Stewart (a phd in EthnoMusicology who had an uncanny ability to acquire over 100 musical instruments and cheap), who gave me this bit of sage advice:
"remember, money that you spend on musical instruments is not real money, it is not the same kind of money that you pay bills with."
It took me just a couple of years to convince my wife (Debbie) of this but I finally did it about 15 years ago. Both of us are players and have enjoyed many years of playing together, both for fun at home and for money at gigs. Best thing you could possibly do is help her get interested in music. . .good luck. . .uncle ken, proud member of MPS Culture Club and of course couldn't resist a new Shristi Garland Teak, wow! love my wife
PS Hi all, especially Russ, KK, Neal, and remco, haven't been here in over a year but have kept up my studies throughout buying the business I was working at, getting a partner (stupid move) getting rid of same, 9/11 and the CEO's closed the business, mom died, uncle died, geez, reopened my business out of the house blah blah blah, life is getting much better.

Pb

Yes, you will love that Srishti Garland Teak beyond measure. . . . .I wouldn't trade mine for all the gold in Cuba. . . .er, uh, China, that is. . . .!

Yes, you've been around this old board for a long time, huh. . . . .that's how I found Lars to help me. . . . .I was going to have some money and wanted to buy a sitar. . . .this forum seemed one of the few places to find any really good info, tips, etc. . . .originally I had planned to buy from Buckingham (Sitars, Etc. hadn't come into being yet). . .imagine my shock and dismay to continue on through the old posts and find that Peter C had passed over. . . . .I was literally floored. . . . .so I went back and spent the entire weekend going through all the old posts and came to the conclusion that out of everyone remaining, Lars would be the most likely to help someone who didn't know squat, not to mention he obviously knew his stuff. . .so that's how I got started. . . . . . .

Those old posts are a veritable gold mine of info, I find myself often going back to read them. . .they not only offer much good and intelligent advice, but much humor and good natured belly laughs, as well! I would seriously recommend anyone who really loves sitar to spend some time taking a spin through them. . .you can learn a great deal and have fun doing it, as well : )

Yes, you're a very lucky man to be able to have a Srishti Garland Teak in your care. . .! Not only is it an incredible instrument sound wise, that Garland pattern is rather rare, you won't find too many anywhere, even India. . . .makes it all more the special. . . . .!

Now, if I only could tune faster. . . . . .sigh
Maybe tuning counts as riyaz??? heheh

As someone recently told me, "if your sitar is perfectly tuned, the gods will listen. otherwise you are seriously distorting the magnetic field of the planet earth and you will have to spend 10,000 years listening to cheap chinese violins.
so beware"

The very best to you and yours!
AJ

Well howdy Kenji! Long time no yack. Glad to see you didn't fall off the edge of the world. Glad to hear the biz worked out for you too. Running your own business is probably the hardest way to go, but if it works out ,it can also provide the most satisfaction because its 100% buyin. Lars is a good example.

Well, not to yack too much tonight. Just got back from another brilliant performance from Indrajit over in Midland Texas. Kind of tired, long drive, and got to go to work tomorrow. So talk to you later on.

. .one of the original posters. . .

hmm let's see, my sitar arrived here somewhere around the end of March. . .I had some surgery a couple weeks after that and was rather poorly for a bit. . .it's only been the last couple months where I've been able to and have made an effort to work with Her regulary. . . . .someday though, I'm pretty sure I'll have these tones in my head and will be able to tune without having to think much about it, kinda like when I tune my guitar. . .I've been doing that since I was 11 and now I'm 43, so it's no wonder I can do that in my sleep. . . .but like I told my son, sitar is a "whole different enchilada altogether". . .I've got a really messed up disk in my back, herniated and degenerating, they can't really do anything and don't want to because they could end up causing me even more pain and possibley spreading the degenerative disease upwards to the next one. . . .so I take some killer pain meds now, which of course I'm sure doesn't help with the learning process, my brain, between that and old age, is a really far cry from what it used to be, (ie the ol' grey mare, she ain't what she used to be), altho I never was a real whiz kid to begin with. . . . . . . . .

But I've got alot of pillows and I prop myself up against either the wall or the foot of my bed and I do alright, for the most part. . .

I have a few books, My Music, My Life, the Junius book, Sharma's "My Sitar", and the online "Reach the Ocean and Sail on the Sitar". .I had been working mainly with the exercises in the Junius up until now, but am making an effort to use My Music, My Life, I'm just slow at understanding the notation in it, will take me a bit to adjust to it, but that really seems the better route right now. . . .even if I do feel really slow and back to square one, so to speak. . . . .but that's alright, I'm stubborn as a mule. . .some people call it "persistance" or "patience", but I'm not that noble, just stubborn. . . . . . .!

Lars has helped me out quite a bit and then of course, there's this forum (those old posts really helped alot, especially when it came time to buy, I just feel like I got super lucky, how all things fell into place the way they did, the timing etc. . .once in a rare while I win one )
I recently also had the good fortune to run into and "meet", so to speak, on the internet, a fellow who lived in India and studied music for over 20 years, a student of Nikhil Banerjee, very kind and down to earth, has gave me some really good tips, as well (he compares sitar tuning to adjusting the trim on a plane, I think that's a pretty good analogy. . .funny as a crutch, too, are all sitarji's nuts or what?)

So, I just poke along and try to listen to as much as I can, at this forum and raags on cd. . .got a thing for bhajans, as well. . .if I have a question, stuff I'm not sure about or just can't understand, I ask Lars. . .drive him nuts, as a matter of fact. . .but he's a good soul and takes it in stride. . .if there's gold karmic stars to be had, he's probably got a wall full of 'em cuz of me by now! heheh

The henna paste trick for blisters has been an especially good one, picked that one up here, at this forum, old posts

I'm moving at a turtle's pace with this but figure that's better than nothing, I'm not gonna sweat it, just go with the flow. . . . .like I said, it takes me forever to get tuned but I guess that kinda does go with it, especially for a beginner. . .and I'm always catching myself at stuff like dragging my left thumb, making sure I'm striking with my mizrab hand the right way (open and closing motion, as opposed to wrist/strumming motion), just little things that I don't want to make a habit of and then be really sorry for down the road. . .so I'm slower than molasses. . .but again, I don't really mind. . . . .ya gotta start somewhere, huh

so that's my big sitar resume, chuckle snort
Alot of times I feel like She's bucking me off, but then sometimes She sings to me, and I'm a goner again. . . . .sappy look and all : )

See ya round like a chakra
AJ

Know what you mean by plodding along as a beginner. It is slow and can be frustrating. Some day when you are comfortable with the instrument, the tuning, and able to run up and down the fretboard and hit the right notes most of the time, then its time to search for a teacher. They can open up worlds you were unaware of and bring out your best. So, best of luck to you, and don't give up. Time and practice makes it happen!

Yes, I do know what you're saying about wrist action, it's come to my attention after reading many posts that I'm not striking my strings strongly enough, ie, "playing like a girl",
(Ravi & his "Baba and the Bangles" story), etc.
So I'm making an effort at that, as well. . . . .I'm really glad that there's at least one good forum around. . . .sure can make a difference to a beginner like myself. . . . . . .!

Pretty impressive that you grew your own gourd and made a top tumba out of it, that's really pretty cool. . . . . .must have gave you alot of personal satisfaction to have done that. . .never have run across anyone else who's done that. . . . .how'd you know what kind of gourd to grow? Aren't there like a bazillion varieties of 'em? Anyways, kudos to you! I enjoyed reading about that very much!

Yep, someday I'll be ready for a real lesson, but in the meantime, I'll just keep pluggin' away. . .each time I sit down, I reinforce these basic things I work at, and they get a little easier. . .steady and simple repetetion wins the race, so to speak. . . . . .and again, I'm stubborn as a mule, which, in this case, has been an real asset , chuckle chuckle ; )

Just recently started tuning in C#, as opposed to C, and I can't say it hurts my fingers any more than before. . .but the difference in the sound is incredible, and I swear, it's easier to tune, too, for some unexplained reason. . . . .!
Wish I'd just done that from the beginning. . . . .!

Oh well, that's how ya learn, I guess. . . . .!

Anyhoo, thanks for the encouragement, that always helps for sure!

See ya 'round like a frizbee!
AJ
ps yep, we're all lucky to have Lars around, eh!
I honestly feel I wouldn't have gotten the instrument I have if not for him, no matter how many $$$'s I had in my pockets to spend!
Not to mention his good nature and honest desire to help newbies, as well!

sitar/sittut/gourdy.html

Hmm, welp Jeff, so far, so good on the string breakage. . . .the only ones that broke tuning higher were the taribs, maybe 3 total. . .all had kinks from being loosened for shipping. . .now when I did this, I know darn well I went too high initially on many of 'em and none broke(giggles insanely, heehee!). . .eventually, I'm gonna tune that sucker up to D, I just have a feeling it will sound even better, if that's possible, but my fingers are simply not tough enough yet to do it. . . . . .but I like to monkey around and have lots of strings, so I feel brave. . . .honestly, I was too nervous to do this at the beginning, mostly because I had no idea where SA with one dot, fell on the scale. . . . .now I do. . . . .what I did originally was went to the Batish site and used their midi for help. . . .I only had to do that once, I was ok then. . . . . .I haven't even bothered with any of the generic strings, been staying with the Pyramids all the way. . . . . . . .you'd have to ask Lars what strings are on it (aside from the taribs I've replaced) but no problemo so far. .
Until I had any idea of where I was tuning, I was really too nervous to go up very high, I did that right off the bat and poing! hahah! You sense the tension on the string, ya know? But honestly, the only real difference I can make out with this C# tuning is that it sounds about a million times better, the sympathetics ring more. .doesn't seem to bother my fingers much more either. .and I have a hunch that possibly D will be even better! Dunno for sure, but when the ol' mitts get a little tougher, definately plan to try it out. . . . .
My friend in England gave me a bit of advice that has made it easier for me. .this is the long version. . .I tune the taribs first. . . .hold my hand on the mains to stop any vibration. . . .tune all the SA taribs. .then the MA or PA's. . . . .the chickari's next. . .then 2nd main SA (should set off the SA/PA taribs). .next tune PA/MA/SA main lower strings in that order. .check SA and PA/MA sympathetics. .check all 3 chickari. . .check 2nd string SA. . .tune main string (MA). . .check 2nd string SA again. . .tune rest of the sympathetics, and make sure the frets are in the right place. . .he gave me a shorter version, but that's the long one, and how I've started to do it, even though I'm slow, it seems to work better for me than the hodge podge way I was going about it. . . . .(I don't doubt from what little we've cooresponded that he knows whut up either, ya know? that's all I'm gonna say , tho). . . . . .
He also said the 2nd string SA must be checked the most, as it sets off more sympathetic action than any other string and also tends to be the least stable string on most sitars (I can vouch for that! wretched SA!)
Another thing he's got me to doing is to sing whatever scale I'm working with (I'll still be doing bilaval when hell freezes over, but s'ok!) It's helping me to get the "tones" in my brain (which hopefully will eventually translate more to my ear. . .I always tune my guitar to D because of where my voice falls. . .so maybe I'm lucky?)
Anyhoo, that's all I know about strings and tuning. . . .I'm still slower than the dickens, but it sounds better, not sure if it's having a method to my madness, or tuning to C# proper. . . . .but no real problems with string breakage whatsoever (so far) I think it may just be that the Pyramids are really great. . . .like I said, I haven't even touched the generics. . . .I'm sure these guys that have been doing this awhile could tell you alot more than me, but so far that's just been my experience. . . .be a brave soul and go for it! Just stock up on Pyramids first! heehee

see ya round like a wagon wheel!
AJ : )

AJ

Pb

Yes Uncle Ken, it seemed to make a great deal of sense to me as well, doing one string at a time to keep an even tension on the neck. . .I know that it will be a long time before I actually NEED to change ALL of my strings, anyways. . . .but I ended up with a lot of "ends" on the "button" (I do not know what this part is called, where the loop of the string goes, that bone thing). .especially from that one cursed tarib I mucked about with for so long, sheesh. . .

At any rate, it would be good to know when that day finally does roll around (not for at least another year though, I've decided) in what order to loosen the strings, then remove, and also put them back on in. . . . .seems logical that the mains would come off first, then the taribs. . .then the reverse when putting on new strings. . . . .

It seems that one would put them back on but not tighten to "pitch" until all are on, then begin to bring them up. . . .but in which order? taribs or mains first? hmmm

Would appreciate any input on this

See ya round like a hoola hoop
AJ