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Devi42
Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 18, 2003 04:35 p.m.

Any suggestions about what combination bols I should practice? So far I have:
Tirakitataka
Tirakitanaka
Giranaga/Kiranaka

Other than that, I've just been trying to practice some basic tals.
Any other helpful tips on what should constitute my regular practice would be greatly appreciated.
Jake
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 20, 2003 11:25 a.m.

Devi42 (Feb 18, 2003 04:35 p.m.):
Any suggestions about what combination bols I should practice? So far I have:
Tirakitataka
Tirakitanaka
Giranaga/Kiranaka

Other than that, I've just been trying to practice some basic tals.
Any other helpful tips on what should constitute my regular practice would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe something like
tetetete gherhenaga tetetete kerhenaka,
gheghenana kekenana and
tirakita dha-tira kitadha- tirakita dha
would be nice add.
Bhavesh
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 20, 2003 01:00 p.m.

I know it might sound like funny to you, but just practicing teentaal for atleast 1/2 hour at medium speed will help you great.

Also when you play teentaal at medium or slow speed you can add tihai like TRKT DHA TRKT DHA TRKT DHA starting from 9th or 13 the matra according to your speed.

You can replace TRKT with any other bol like GRNG or DHETEDHETE.

Belive me It worked for me specially improving my BAYAN sound. still I am playing basic taal for 15 mins atleast.

Hope this might help.
alien
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 20, 2003 01:14 p.m.

Consult a teacher or advanced student of your preferred tradition and ask for a set of kaidas, sorted in increasing complexity. I think it's only by doing kaida daily that one can go ahead. Good luck.
Warren
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 20, 2003 02:00 p.m.

Devi ,
Go to the Austin Tabla site
http://www.angelfire.com/music3/tabla , to the composition database page
Download the Gourisankar beginning lessons notes and work on those . Then there is 10 years worth of compositions to practice in the composition database.
Then it's important to have a teacher as Alien suggested

alien (Feb 20, 2003 01:14 p.m.):
Consult a teacher or advanced student of your preferred tradition and ask for a set of kaidas, sorted in increasing complexity. I think it's only by doing kaida daily that one can go ahead. Good luck.
jilly
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 21, 2003 08:27 a.m.

What bhavesh said is very sensible. Teentaal is one of the most fundamental taals and its true i do sit down for fifteen to twenty minutes just playing it a varied speeds. This will also help to improve the na sound which can be quite difficult for some beginners. Have fun
Devi
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 21, 2003 12:46 p.m.

I'm out of luck where teachers are concerned; St. Louis appears to be not so much a mecca for tabla gurus. For the foreseeable future, I'm on my own. I know it's suboptimal to say the least but is it better I just not play at all?

I have been playing tintal a lot. . especially since I got that advice about moving the whole hand for Na to Tin.

Thanks for the other tips!

It's hard to disappoint a pessimist.
alien
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 22, 2003 02:08 a.m.

Never mind. You can still progress. Choose your guru, and if you can afford, leave everything for 2-3 weeks and be with him, travel with him on the tour, lodge with him and devote 24 hours for the basics. In the first period it's important to keep your hands surveyed and corrected. Then keep tele-contact with him monthly and see him whenever you can. Many students meet their masters yearly (think of Ravi Shankar) and it does work. The only issue is that it's harder to maintain your passion and inspiration. Endurance.
Shawn
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 22, 2003 06:08 p.m.

I like this rela for practice:

Dha-TiRaKiTaTaKa x4
TaKaTiRaKiTaTaKa x4
DhiReDhiReKiTaTaKa x4
Tun-Na-KiTaTaKa x4

And there's always the standard DhaDhaTeTe kaida:

DhaDhaTeTe DhaDhaTinNa
TaTaTeTe DhaDhaDhinNa

Of course, nothing will replace a good teacher. .

Shawn
http://www.percussionist.net
Devi
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 22, 2003 06:53 p.m.

Hahaha. . that's a good one! In my job, days off come in singles, four a month. My behind is rooted right here whether I like it or not! I bet not many tabla gurus travel to their students :-)

Ah well, I'll just limp along. . if my technique stinks well then I guess the world will just have to do without another virtuoso tabla player. For me it's fun to bang on my drum, so I'll just carry on doing that. I do appreciate all the excellent tips everyone has given me, though. Keep 'em coming!

alien (Feb 22, 2003 02:08 a.m.):
Never mind. You can still progress. Choose your guru, and if you can afford, leave everything for 2-3 weeks and be with him, travel with him on the tour, lodge with him and devote 24 hours for the basics. In the first period it's important to keep your hands surveyed and corrected. Then keep tele-contact with him monthly and see him whenever you can. Many students meet their masters yearly (think of Ravi Shankar) and it does work. The only issue is that it's harder to maintain your passion and inspiration. Endurance.
It's hard to disappoint a pessimist.
Devi
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 22, 2003 06:56 p.m.

In the DhiReDhiRe line, how is the Re played?

Shawn (Feb 22, 2003 06:08 p.m.):
I like this rela for practice:

Dha-TiRaKiTaTaKa x4
TaKaTiRaKiTaTaKa x4
DhiReDhiReKiTaTaKa x4
Tun-Na-KiTaTaKa x4

And there's always the standard DhaDhaTeTe kaida:

DhaDhaTeTe DhaDhaTinNa
TaTaTeTe DhaDhaDhinNa

Of course, nothing will replace a good teacher. .

It's hard to disappoint a pessimist.
Shawn
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 22, 2003 11:09 p.m.

DhiReDhiRe is played with the "fatty" part of the hand. The Dhi is a dead stroke on the right hand, hitting with the fat on the pinky-side of the hand + Ge with the left hand. The Re is a dead stroke on the right hand, hitting with the fat on the thumb-side of the hand.

Some people play DhiReDhiRe with a Ge on just the first Dhi, and some people play Ge on both Dhis.

Shawn
http://www.percussionist.net
alien
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 23, 2003 12:47 p.m.

Devi (Feb 22, 2003 06:56 p.m.):
In the DhiReDhiRe line, how is the Re played?

Shawn (Feb 22, 2003 06:08 p.m.):
I like this rela for practice:

Dha-TiRaKiTaTaKa x4
TaKaTiRaKiTaTaKa x4
DhiReDhiReKiTaTaKa x4
Tun-Na-KiTaTaKa x4

And there's always the standard DhaDhaTeTe kaida:

DhaDhaTeTe DhaDhaTinNa
TaTaTeTe DhaDhaDhinNa

Of course, nothing will replace a good teacher. .


All right, Devi.
So I believe Dheredhere is preceded with many combinations.
dha tet, ta tet
dha te te, ta te te
dha dha te te, ta ta te te
dha dhe te
dha dha dhi na, ta ta ti na
ge na, ke na
dha ge na, ta ke na
dha ge ne, ta ke ne
dha dha ge ne, ta ta ke ne
dhi na ge na, ti na ke na
dha ge dhi na ge na, ta ke ti na ke na
ghe na dhi na ge na, ke na ti na ke na
te te ge na, te te ke na
ghe na te te, ke na te te
dha tet dha ge, ta tet ta ke
ghe na dha ge, ke na ta ke
dha tet ge na, ta tet ke na
dha tet ge na tak ge, ta tet ke na tak ke
ghe na dha tet ge na, ke na ta tet ke na
ghe ge na ge, ke ke na ke
te te kat taa
te te ka ta
te te ka ta ga di ge ne
ka ta ga di ge ne
dhi ne dhi na ge na, ti ne ti na ke na
dha tet ge ne, ta tet ke ne
dhi na ge ne, ti na ke ne
te te ge ne, dhe te ge ne, te te ke ne
dhi ne ge ne, ti ne ke ne
dhi ne ge na, ti ne ke na
Then there are te re ki te, tre, kre, things with ta ka, ka ta, dhi ne na ge, and so on.
If you can play these, in combination, in different tempi, with accents, in chand, with gaps, in different talas an so on, you can forget about kaidas (for a while!) and learn those bols needed for relas. Endurance and passion.
Devi
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 23, 2003 08:20 p.m.

oooooh yeah, DheRe, aka DhiRa (was stuck thinking in terms of single bols).

As for the nice exercises in the last post, the te te is the same as ti ta, right? And tet is played with R345 bandh on the syahi, right?

And, really, thanks for the help!

It's hard to disappoint a pessimist.
Devi
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 23, 2003 11:05 p.m.

I really like these! Just a few questions:
1) In dhi na ge na, ti na ke na - Am I correct in playing ti with R345 bandh syahi (or R3 bandh syahi)?
2) How should I play tak in these exercises - whole hand or one of the one-finger methods?
3) What do you mean by different accents?
4) What does chand mean?
5) By "gaps" do you mean I insert gaps into these in different spots however I make it up?
6) Which bols are needed for relas?
7) I constructed a website as a sort of online notebook for myself - do you mind if I put these on my site?

Shawn (Feb 22, 2003 06:08 p.m.):
If you can play these, in combination, in different tempi, with accents, in chand, with gaps, in different talas an so on, you can forget about kaidas (for a while!) and learn those bols needed for relas. Endurance and passion.
alien
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 24, 2003 02:43 a.m.

Good morning/evening, Devi!
-1) te te = ti ta. It has at least 5 ways to play, here come the preferences of gharanas (human teacher!).
0) I do tet with finger 2 (index is 1, pinkie is 4 so you have 4 fingers to play with) on the shyahi, but not on the center since it's a relatively weak stroke.
1)ti is a khali pair of dhi, played tu and ke together.
2)In dtgn takg tak is a sharp, muted ta (taa) on kinar, a snap sound. It can be equally played on sur with the same method. But elsewhere it can mean lots of things.
3) By accent I mean simply to increase the intensity and by that to mark and differenciate certain strokes. Emphasis?
4) Here chand meant to do a given number of bols per matra. Most often one plays a kaida in tisra jati (3 or multiple, one and a half the speed of original) between playing it in single and in double speeds. So:
dha dha | te te | dha dha | ti na | . .
dha dha te | te dha dha | ti na ta | ta te te |. .
dha dha te te | dha dha ti na | ta ta te te |. .
But feel free to play 5, 6, 7, 9, . .
5)Gap meant rest. It's generally signed with an S. So:
dha dha te te | s dha te te | dha dha te te | dha dha ti na
6) What I find typical rela bols are dheredhere, for sure. The other rela bols, like gerenage, tetegerenage, dhinedhina, dhine, dhineghene, dhageterekite, and so on can be found in kaidas also.
7)So these are probably combinations that have to be played separately also but what would have much more sense is to collect full old compositions, educational and concert types. You act as you wish but these ones have no value like that, apart. Comments, please. Endurance, passion, dedication.
Devi
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 24, 2003 02:43 p.m.

They have value for exactly the reason you told them to me. . for practice :-)

Thanks again for the tips!

Out of curiosity, how long "should" it take to sufficiently "master" these to move on to the other bols and/or kaida? Should I be thinking like. . weeks? (I've been playing for approx 40 days, avg 30-40 min/day)
TheMonk
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 25, 2003 12:46 a.m.

I have been learning Dhere for months, and I feel I do not have it very good.
rod
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 25, 2003 05:20 a.m.

I started playing DhereDhere after been playing for two years. It has been two years since and I believe it will take me another year or two to master fast DhereDhere's( a lot of the problem now is not the way I play it but the tension in my hand and arm. Once I master that I should start to master DhereDhere).

TheMonk (Feb 25, 2003 12:46 a.m.):
I have been learning Dhere for months, and I feel I do not have it very good.
Steve
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 25, 2003 08:54 a.m.

Hello Devi,
I don't want to sound negative but I think there is no such thing as 'mastering' a stoke. The way that the great masters play simple bols way out does anything that others have done. You can practice and practice the strokes in isolation or in simple patterns but putting them together is never mastered. Well, mastered by a few.You can however get your strokes to a good level.
As for the amount of time? I have been playing for two years now and i'm always unhappy about my second te when i play tete at speed. I think this is a common problem. so I am no where near getting this simple stroke to a good level.
As for moving onto kaidas etc. The standard Dha dha te te, dha dha tun na, na na tet te, dha dha dhin na is always a winner. No matter how advanced you get this is always good to play. It is very simple so when you try to improvise this kaida there are so many directions you can go in. The more advanced you get the more intricate your variations.
Also a good strong theka is a must. This for me is the seed that everything else grows from. If the seed is bad then the flower cannot grow and become beautiful. So this should be practiced a lot each day.
I always go with the idea of a few compositions for the first few years. Many disagree but that's how I think. A previous posting relating to Kumar Bose expresses the same idea. I think it said that he was given only 4 or 5 compositions for the first 3 years. this gave him the solid grounding and then everything else was a breeze. And hear him now, absolutely charming.
Keep it up, good luck.
Devi
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 25, 2003 11:50 p.m.

Yeah, I know, that's why I put "mastery" in quotes :-)
I just meant - how long should I practice those same combinations before I move on to something else? Despite the fact that practicing the same 10 bols for an hour a day for ten years will not yield mastery of them, there must be a point of diminishing return on time spent practicing, when one would be better served approaching from a different angle, such as with kaidas or whatever. What I'm trying to get at is how long I should focus on these basic bols before I move on to other forms, etc.

Steve (Feb 25, 2003 08:54 a.m.):
Hello Devi,
I don't want to sound negative but I think there is no such thing as 'mastering' a stoke. Keep it up, good luck.

Also, who is Kumar Bose? I looked for CDs with that name on amazon.com and half.com and found nothing. Lots of Miquel Bose, no Kumar Bose.

It's hard to disappoint a pessimist.
alien
Re:Combination bols for beginner practice Feb 26, 2003 04:01 a.m.

Good comment. Zakir said he felt uneasy with dheredhere so he worked on it (as we know him, for months) and he said recently (!) that it gets better now. Not OK, just better. Of course, you hear an engine when he starts it but it's another story.
rod (Feb 25, 2003 05:20 a.m.):
I started playing DhereDhere after been playing for two years. It has been two years since and I believe it will take me another year or two to master fast DhereDhere's( a lot of the problem now is not the way I play it but the tension in my hand and arm. Once I master that I should start to master DhereDhere).

TheMonk (Feb 25, 2003 12:46 a.m.):
I have been learning Dhere for months, and I feel I do not have it very good.
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