INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: torn in between. . .

I am about to go to India/Calcutta in three weeks to spend three weeks playing tabla. I have met Pt Anindo Chatterjee a couple of times and up to a month ago I was planning to go and see him(with the approval of my guruji Pt Sarda Sahai of course) but, since I am completly in love with the Benaras style(and Kumar Bose's style of playing), it had crossed my mind that I might instead spend some time with him and make him my teacher whenever I am in India. I love both of them but I thnk I am leaning towards Pt Kumar Bose and his bayan, not to mention the Benaras baj itself. . .

comments?? . .please, don't confuse too much.

Jake, you say u can't find a teacher out in Finland. For all the reasons Warren mentioned about the need for a guru, why don't you get in touch with a true tabla player in India and evey year take holidays go down there for few weeks, spend ten hours a day practicing and . .the rest is history !!!

If I were you I would go to Kumar Bose. You feel Benares gharana to be the style you want to master. You also get deeper knowledge of Benares, because you're studing also with Sarda Sahai. Sarda Sahai and Kishen Maharaj had the same teacher at one time. If I remember correctly Kante Maharaj (sorry, if I am mistaken)and Maharaj has taught Bose.

I have called Pt Kumar Bose but he is in Bombay at the moment (going back to Calcutta on the tenth) so I will have to call back then. Fingers crossed all goes well.
It took me a while to really appreciate the Benaras baj(perhaps because when starting to play tabla, speed was more attractive than slow playing) but I can (almost) feel it as part of me now(just love it). I can also (somehow)relate a lot to Pt Kuma Bose's way of playing as if that was the way I was meant to play(hope I am not being too "full of myself"). . .also Shaik Daewood is another one with a style I can also relate(I guess is the bayan of them both, more than anything, that makes feel that way) . . .and of course their dynamics on the dayan(specially Pt Kuma Bose's dhas on the sam. .er. .actually, everything. . )

Yes, Kante Maharaj was Kihan Maharaj and Sarda Sahai
Guruji. I would love to hear him play but I guess there is no recording of him. I will ask my master about that.
Sarda Sahai is playing at the Royal Festival Hall(purcell room) on the 15the of this month with Sanju Sahai. He will also be playing maybe in October in Harrow town hall, north London(I probably will be in India for this one)

cheers

I'm a student of Bob Becker (a disciple of Pandit Sharda Sahai in Canada), so I can tell you - stick to the Benares gharana!

Since I started studying with Bob a couple of years ago, I totally fell in love with the Benares style. You are so lucky to be a student of Pandit Sharda Sahai. .

If I have the chance to go to India, I will definitely find a teacher in the Benares style as well.

(By the way, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any other gharana! They all have their special characteristics!)

Shawn

solo, or accompaniment. .

Shawn

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Shawn (Sep 04, 2002 10:37 a.m.):
Sampta Prasad is incredible! Do you know of any CDs?

solo, or accompaniment. .

Shawn

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There are some at www.khazana.com. the one with brama(spelling ok?) taal is very good. I also have an old tape given to me by a friend where he plays a trully beautiful Jhaptall. Really, really beautiful!!
The lehara is really beautiful too and it is on the harmonium. Just love everything about the way he plays. I will let u know more about it(tape) some other time. I don't have the cover here with me.

Let me remind you that since Anindo Ji was a student of the late great Jnan Ghosh the renound musician and ethnomusicologist, he is well versed in ALL styles of tabla playing - Including Benares. Personally, I would try to go see Anindo Ji, that way I could get material from all gharanas. Anindo has some very good material. I took a workshop with him and he gave me things that I will be practicing for the next 10 years. Just a thought.

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rod (Sep 04, 2002 11:07 a.m.):

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Shawn (Sep 04, 2002 10:37 a.m.):
Sampta Prasad is incredible! Do you know of any CDs?

solo, or accompaniment. .

Shawn

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There are some at www.khazana.com. the one with brama(spelling ok?) taal is very good. I also have an old tape given to me by a friend where he plays a trully beautiful Jhaptall. Really, really beautiful!!
The lehara is really beautiful too and it is on the harmonium. Just love everything about the way he plays. I will let u know more about it(tape) some other time. I don't have the cover here with me.

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Wow! It's been a while since I went to khazana. . lots of new things. I ordered 2 Sampta Prasad CDs, the Thirakwa CD, and the new Kumar Bose double CD. I haven't treated myself to some new cds in a while, and this will be quite a treat indeed!

Shawn

I've never actually seen a Benares player not sitting cross-legged, but I suppose that anything is possible. Both my teacher, and Pandit Sharda Sahai sit cross-legged (look at pictures, album covers, etc. .).

Also. . there are most definitely subtleties in tone, volume, etc. . It's not just WHAM BAM BAM BAM . . or maybe you've been listening to the wrong Benares players. .?

It's true that the Benares style is strong and powerful, but I would characterise it more as bold and playful. The way you explain it, it sounds like the "rock drummers" of tabla players, as if Benares gharana lacked sophistication, which is really REALLY not the case.

I'm not trying to start a war here. .but I think that what you said about Benares wasn't quite right.

Shawn

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Jake (Sep 05, 2002 01:16 a.m.):
Shawn! Thirakwa's Drums of India has the greatest playing that I have heard from Samta Prasad(2-3 short pieces=about 15minutes). It's mostly Thirakwa.This cd is from old tapes and the sound quality is not 100%. There are maximum of about ten minutes per piece. There is Amir Hussain also. The playing is of absolute high quality all the way.I have to go home and listen to it once again. .

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Ah! I didn't notice THIS cd when browsing. . they have SO MANY. I ordered the Thirakwa Live in Bombay 1964 cd. I'll get this one next time! Strange that the pieces are so short, but it still sounds interesting. .

Shawn

Enjoy the cd is almost too good to be true!
I don't want to put down other tabla masters, but Thirakwa's expression in tabla solo is something no other player in my opinion have ever reached.

please keep posting with your views, has been very interesting so far.
. .I still have to contact Pt Kumar Bose next week and if I do end up seeing him, I will also try to visit Pt Anindo Chatterjee just to get to know him a bit better. He is a very nice person indeed.

.

hey Amir,

This is what the record cover says:

"Rashid Mustafa Thirakwa hails from the Farukabad Gharana, a lineage of the great musicians who have been pioneers in the Hindustani Classical Music, especially in Tabla. Rashid was initiated into tabla at the tender age of seven. He obtained strong grounding from his illustrious father, the late Ustad Mhd. Jaan Khan Sahib and later strengthened his skill under the tutelage of his legendary uncle, the late Padma Bhushan Ustad Ahmed Jaan Thirakwa Khan Sahib. Rashid Mustafa represents the fourth generation of this family and has vibrantly kept the family tradition alive through his own unique style of tabla playing.

Besides performing as an established solo percussionist, Rashid Mustafa has accompanied most of the eminent Hinustani Classical Vocalists, Instrumentalists and Kathak Dancers of India. He has received many awards and accolades for his versality in Tabla performances, including the "Thirakwa Title" by Bhartiya Vidhya Bhavan in 1984 and was also awarded by the late Lord Yehudi Menuin award at Davos, Switzerland."

So, as u can see, he is not trying to use anyone elses name but because it is a title givem to him. This particular line of records is about outstanding disciples of famous masters and him being the chosen disciple of Ustad Ahmed Jaan Thirakwa and having the same title I guess that is why they decided to include it on. The music is great. Take my word for it. I love this record and I consider(the music in it) to be some of my top tabla solos ever.

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Shawn (Sep 04, 2002 10:39 p.m.):
Warren, those comments about Benares gharana are a little strong. .

I've never actually seen a Benares player not sitting cross-legged, but I suppose that anything is possible. Both my teacher, and Pandit Sharda Sahai sit cross-legged (look at pictures, album covers, etc. .).

Also. . there are most definitely subtleties in tone, volume, etc. . It's not just WHAM BAM BAM BAM . . or maybe you've been listening to the wrong Benares players. .?

It's true that the Benares style is strong and powerful, but I would characterise it more as bold and playful. The way you explain it, it sounds like the "rock drummers" of tabla players, as if Benares gharana lacked sophistication, which is really REALLY not the case.

I'm not trying to start a war here. .but I think that what you said about Benares wasn't quite right.

Shawn

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I asked my teacher about the sitting position issue. He plays cross-legged, as does Pandit Sharda Sahai. He was surprised when I told him that another Benares player said that the norm is sitting up on the knees.

Basically, it's probably just an issue of personal preference. The knee position means you are higher above the tabla and so, more potential for power. .

It's true that Benares has a great sur-ta (called Lao Ta in Benares baj). It's a very important stroke in the repertoire. .

Shawn

Jake your just into Swapan right now and I hate to burst that bubble. For one Zakir and Anindo are my teachers and they are the best to me so I have to be understanding when anyone states otherwise. But I have had a lesson from Swapan and his disciple Subhen
and have spoken to Swapan and seen him perform in the last year. It's nice that different artists should have certain fans that are loyal to them.
Swapan by the way has a very high regard for Zakir.
Zakir is by far the highest sought after accompanist. More famous renowned artists of india request him than any other tabla player.This is not because he is the greatest Fusion tabla player although there is no question about that. He also is the highest paid tabla player averaging about double of most other famous tablaya per concert. There is no question that he is the most popular. And he is still in his prime, still growing , creating , still performing year round. He has done far more concert programs like the "masters of Percussion", Lines Ballet and other ensembles etc. and recorded far more albums and solo recordings then several other tabla artist combined.
Do not underestimate this guy, Anindo and every other tabla teacher I have spoken to have the highest respect for Zakir. Allah Rakha Khansahib stated the he was so proud that his son had surpassed his own abilities, that's no small compliment. And speaking of Abbiji, most tabla maestros credit Allah Rakha and Zakir with bringing the tabla to it's high status today. Remember that not to long ago many tabla accompanists weren't even mentioned by name and pay was low and still is often lower than the instrumentalist. There are numerous fantastic recordings with great artists like Chautar Lal where there names weren't even listed on the albums. Ustad Shafaat Ahmed Khan was quoted as saying thank god for Zakir bhai and many others have commented likewise on his contributions.
Bottom line Zakir has done more for tabla players careers than they could do for thereselves so when people speak of Zakir in a real casual way it's touchie, he must be afforded a special respect. Other tabla masters get pissed if they feel someone is disrespective of Zakir. I have been chastised myself by a great teacher for making the slightest comment that sounded a little disrepectful . For most tabla performers today he is there champion leading there cause. They are very proud of him.

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Jake (Sep 23, 2002 09:05 a.m.):
I agree with you genuine Rod. In my opinion it's not also wise to say someone is the best, because some others say that. Listen to different players and if you feel someone is the best or better compared to some others then say it. I personally haven't yet listened to Rashd Mustafa Thirakwa, but my cd is coming so after a few weeks I can take part to that conversation more. I personally don't feel, that Zakir or Anindo are the best players. Zakir is the best tabla player in fusion that I've heard so far, but when it's classical tabla solo Swapan Chaudhuri is the man in my opinion (todays tabla players). I haven't heard Tanmoy Bose, new Thirakwa or Abhijit Bannerjee, but soon I will. I am also very excited about Nizamuddin Khan's video. That should be something legendary! Swapan's Classics for pleasure (then I have all three Swapan's cds) and Sarda Sahai's The spirit of Benares are also coming. Sarda Sahai is also very good. Listen to cds and make up your minds after that. .

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I can tell you that my experiences to date have been unbelievable. He's an exceptional teacher and is a great technician.

Email me at ganesab@yahoo.com if you want to chat more about this.

Regards

Branavan

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Bran (Sep 24, 2002 07:03 a.m.):
Rod,
I'm also from the States and I'm in Calcutta right now, taking lessons with Pt. Kumar Bose. I also weighed my options about going to Pt. Anindo Chaterjee. My guruji is Zakir Hussain, and so I opted for Benares gharana since Punjab and Benares are both Pakhwaj sur.

I can tell you that my experiences to date have been unbelievable. He's an exceptional teacher and is a great technician.

Email me at ganesab@yahoo.com if you want to chat more about this.

Regards

Branavan

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The teaching styles of the two are very different so it's hard to compare them. I took summer sessions with Zakirji, so he would teach the full class together and present material to the whole class.

Kumarji teaches using the Gurukul method, and brings each individual student up at his/her own pace. We have classes from 10 - 2:30 Sat-Mon and each person gets about 5 - 10 minutes in the hot seat in front of him.

Both of them are incredible teachers. You know how Zakirji will figure out your hand position issues after watching you play for about 30 seconds? Kumaji is the same way. Each in their way is patient; each in their way is passionate and very forceful when they want to make their point.

The difference with Kumarji and his classes here are that he has a steady set of students who are receiving talim year round. With Zakirji and his schedule, plus the fact that I live on the east Coast, I do not have the continuity that I would like to have.

As for the seating position:
Kumar Bose himself sits cross legged. All of his students sit cross legged as well. I will ask him about the seating position at my next class and give you his take on it.

Regards

Branavan

What sort of compositions is he teaching? Is it mixed? Is it oriented more towards solo tabla or accompaniment, or both?

Thanks,

Shawn
(a fellow Benares player)

. . .and to drive you all mad. . . .

BANARAS BAJ RULES !!!!!!

cheers

cheers

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nobody important (Sep 28, 2002 09:43 a.m.):
I hate to bring this up but it bothers me . Swapan was the first Tabla teacher at AACM to stop teaching beginning students . I think it has been very discouraging for the school. Now that type of thing is not offered to beginning tabla students going to the college. I thought that was a really bad change that contributed to a drop in attendance for newbies. Say no more -just wanted to get that off my chest

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My two cents on this is that sometimes it is better for a beginning student to go to somebody who is not as high profile, but extremely competent, and learn the basics. Somebody like Zakirji, Swapanji, Kumarji, Anindoji, etc. etc. are in huge demand and will not have the time to provide a sound basis on which to build on. Not because they don't know how, but because you'll see them in a very sporadic way due to their schedules.

I find this is true for me for sure.

Having said that though, there's no substitute for watching somebody at this level teach, perform or demonstrate tabla baj. So in that sense I empathize.

Regards

Branavan

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Bran (Sep 29, 2002 06:48 a.m.):
Hi,
Just curious as to who is then teaching beginning students at Ali Akbar Scholl of Music? Is it a senior student of Swapanji or something like that?

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nobody important (Sep 28, 2002 09:43 a.m.):
I hate to bring this up but it bothers me . Swapan was the first Tabla teacher at AACM to stop teaching beginning students . I think it has been very discouraging for the school. Now that type of thing is not offered to beginning tabla students going to the college. I thought that was a really bad change that contributed to a drop in attendance for newbies. Say no more -just wanted to get that off my chest

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My two cents on this is that sometimes it is better for a beginning student to go to somebody who is not as high profile, but extremely competent, and learn the basics. Somebody like Zakirji, Swapanji, Kumarji, Anindoji, etc. etc. are in huge demand and will not have the time to provide a sound basis on which to build on. Not because they don't know how, but because you'll see them in a very sporadic way due to their schedules.

I find this is true for me for sure.

Having said that though, there's no substitute for watching somebody at this level teach, perform or demonstrate tabla baj. So in that sense I empathize.

Regards

Branavan

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