INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: learning from records

 

Author Message
barend
learning from records Jun 02, 2004 05:34 p.m.


Besides practising the things I learn from my sitar lessons I also try to copy some things from from cd's of famous sitarplayers.
Finding out the notes is no problem most of the times but playing it excactly like the record is another story.
What do you think about learning from records?
Remco
Re:learning from records Jun 02, 2004 06:16 p.m.


It's a bit a of a hassle, but I finetune the track in Soundforge (tune it to C#) and then loop small parts and practice them over and over angain. I have my laptop sitting next to me when practising. Some players though are just plain impossible to copy: Nikhil Banerjee f.i. just impossible, pretty frustrating so I don't bother (at least at this stage...) But I find it really helpfull to copy, you learn the fluent phrasing that sometimes get lost when studying more rigid compositions like gats for instance.

Peace,

Remco

P.s.: the gats are needed to learn the basics and to built up reportoire!!

jaym
Re:learning from records Jun 03, 2004 10:19 a.m.


great timing on this thread because i am starting to get into this alot now. How much is that Soundforge software? I am playing in C lately and sometimes it is just a hassle to always tweak the tuning to match the CD.

i do agree that it is a great way to learn phrases and certain passages within a rag. it is up to you to figure out how to approach meends etc...which is good from a creative standpoint.

A better method is playinig along w/ video. I have two that are great and of course... challenging. The big advantage is you can see the meends and try to mirror the technique....Just keep the rewind button close by!

Ustad Vilayat Khan - Hameer (DVD)
Shujaat Khan - Jhinjoti (VHS)

Remco
Re:learning from records Jun 03, 2004 11:10 a.m.


You can use Soundforge from Sonic Foundry, but there are a lot of similair programs. The cool thing is when using a program like this is that, when tuning the piece it will slow down: Nikhil Banerjee and Shahid Parvez seem(ed) to prefer tuning to D, so you'll have to tune down to C#. When tuning down the speed slows down. Helps me to figure out more faster stuff.

There's also software available that slows down but will staying in the same pitch: very cool to figure out superfast stuff. Barend showed me a program called Slow Downer that's very usable. I've worked with Soundforge for over a decade so I know it inside out. Other options: Wavelab, Ableton Live, Acid (although the two last programs are more directed towards DJ-style soundmanipulation)

Peace,

Remco

Aanaddha
Re:learning from records Jun 03, 2004 11:46 a.m.


[quote]Remco (Jun 03, 2004 11:10 a.m.):
Other options: Wavelab, ...

Adobe 'Audition' is another software suite quite similiar to SF. These programs are also useful for making practice-grade tabla and tanpura loops and for recording your practice and rehearsal sessions. Warning: don't let computer time take away from practice time.

A.

_______________________________

Witt
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 12:55 a.m.


Very interesting topic. I assume these are all PC programs. Does anyone know of any Macintosh programs that allow tuning a track to a particular pitch and changing the speed of playback?

Witt

westsea
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 01:16 a.m.


There is a nice music software program that
is free and has versions for Mac, Windows and
Linux. One effect is change pitch. It's name
is Audacity and can be found at:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
AJ
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 03:15 a.m.


Hello Witt!

I have a friend who uses ProTools FREE on his Mac, does everything but slice bread for him, I guess : )
Not sure what Mac OS you're using, but you can download a free version for Mac OS 8.6 & OS9 here:

http://www.protools.com/

It is made by DigiDesign.........if you send me an email, I'll send you a copy of the letter he sent me with 3 screen shots and what he had to say about it, really really thought it was great.....
And from his own recordings he sent me, I would agree, they sounded great and he had all sorts of options....such as shifting pitch, speed, all sorts of stuff....as I recall it was an 8 track.....

If you'd like to hear what he had to say about ProTools FREE for Mac, and see these great screen shots (3), drop me a line, I'll send ya a copy!

Nada Brahma!
AJ : )

Remco
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 07:22 a.m.


All the programs I mentioned are also available for the Mac. I've also worked with Protools: great program, but expect a very VERY steep learning curve. For sitar practise it's a bit to much, like shooting with a cannon to kill a musquito really. Protools is more a studio in a PC/Mac, rather than a soundediting program. Also: I've never worked with the free version, but don't you need a dedicated soundcard (001 or 002) to make it work?

For pitchcorrecting files, looping etc. for sitarpractice I would recommend sticking to simpler programs.

Peace,

Remco

barend
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 07:49 a.m.


No offence, but this is becoming to much of a software discussion....(which is also an interesting topic). But what I mean is: do you think that learning from recordings is a good way to learn sitar or to help you further (of course you also have to practise the things you learn in your lessons).
Remco
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 08:40 a.m.


Yep....no doubt

Peace,

Remco

Lars
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 01:45 p.m.


Hi Barend,
I think it's a way to learn, have known a few people that have benefitted from playing with recordings. The only drawback is the possibility of sounding just like the recording/player which is frowned upon by most.
With the software I'm surprised nobody mentioned Slow Gold which has been around for years and made to do exactly what you want it to easily. Here's a link for you:
http://www.sonicspot.com/slowgold/slowgold.html
Enjoy!


barend (Jun 05, 2004 07:49 a.m.):
No offence, but this is becoming to much of a software discussion....(which is also an interesting topic). But what I mean is: do you think that learning from recordings is a good way to learn sitar or to help you further (of course you also have to practise the things you learn in your lessons).

Lars
AJ
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 10:56 a.m.


: )

Absolutely! 100%!
Taught myself many things that way!
You will, too!

See ya round like a loop!
AJ : )

AJ
Re:learning from records Jun 05, 2004 11:13 p.m.


I've been thinking about this topic all week, for some reason..........and I don't think it's so much like playing along with recorded music as it is LISTENING closely to it..........or an artist, as they perform........it's the LISTENING and getting it into your head so you can train your fingers/hand/arm/wrist to play it, complete with all the finer points, louder here, softer there, accent here, etc etc etc...........

Over and over I hear and read that in ICM singing is a considered paramount, no matter what instrument the person is learning/studying/refining, simply because if you can SING it, it's IN YOUR HEAD, and if it's in your head, you will eventually be able to PLAY it.................thing is, the more you listen to and learn, even copying people (or trying to), your own sound will eventually come out of you........a marvelous stew of many things but especially yourself............!

Ok, now crawling back into my hole here........!
AJ

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