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INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: whats hot and whats not!

 

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Jan
whats hot and whats not! Oct 06, 2003 03:29 p.m.

Personally i cant think of a more disturbing mix than alcohol and sitar. I would never touch my sitar after drinking alcohol. I cant play after food either, just cant do it. It would be like eating meat, totaly absurd and disrespectful in other words.

Jan
K.K.
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 06, 2003 03:59 p.m.

(Sniff sniff) Hey, what's that smell?! Somebody just open a can of worms?
Beenkarji
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 07, 2003 12:35 a.m.

Well the topic doesn't have much to do with sitar but it is a good point. When you do a substance a play an instrument you are not actually giving it your best, and your mind is under the influence so your music will be really crappy. Just take Shamsuddin Desai Faridi for example, you can listen to him on the makar records site, and if it sounds like he sucks, he does, and also its because he has a bit of a problem with opium. For some reason his father was absolutely wonderfull, but he just is not good
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
Jan
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 07, 2003 04:10 a.m.

Jan (Oct 06, 2003 03:29 p.m.):It would be like eating meat, totaly absurd and disrespectful in other words.

Jan


If you eat meat dont take this personal. The whisteling concert experience got me off a little. It just fits like a glove to describe how i feel about the ICM and alcohol
connection. If youre were a car freak it would be like filling your Mustang up with diesel. Or think of it as polishing tour windows with butter, its a no go. .


The thing about food, Its 100% subjective, but with a full belly i just cant play sitar. It does not feel the way i want it to. To play guitar after dinner is no problem.

Hope that cleaned out some of the worms. .


Jan
johnnysitarwhatson
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 07, 2003 07:06 p.m.

Hi, I'm new here - nice bord . . . test, test.
Funny thing is, yesterday late night, tabla player and me played a little bit for a friend's birthday, rather drunk. Very nice, tintaal suddenly got fast 15 beat, and Yaman unexpectedly interfered with some R. Shankar punk tune . . . not very proper. You have to try everything. Sufi wisdom says: alcohol is same as Sitar, you have to practise, practise, practise . . .
Remco_Helbers
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 09:10 a.m.

Well. .we all know what happened to your relative Johnny Guitar Watson: He collapsed and died on stage. . .

Peace,

Remco
johnnysitarwhatson
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 10:13 a.m.

Hmmm . . I didn't design my Nick to fit into this thread - but it does . . . and I dont drink all the time:-) . . . and if I collapse, they'll all just go "oh, another alap again".
But seriously, I read a bio of Ram Narajan, who was a longtime alc addict, and he writes, that at that time (50s) a lot a classical musicians were like that . .
Amitava
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 11:09 a.m.

Sitariya Balram Pathak was well known as taking 420 (pot) before performances. Vocalist Bhimsen Joshi, considered a genius, is a recovering alcoholic. I am not sure that such moral judements make a better or worse musician.

A

P.S. Alcohol after concerts is a well known vice of MANY MANY musicians. Sleeping around with married and unmarried women/students and illegitimate children seems to be very acceptable to others. . .while the same musicians tout the facade or morality and "spirituality". Hmmm. Wonder if their music/popularity suffers.
Billy
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 12:34 p.m.

Touchy subject. I think in the long run, its probably not something we need to discuss. What someone does, as long as it doesn't affect me, is their own business.

I believe any spiritual music, whether Indian or any other, is best played in a spiritual manner by someone with the right frame of mind. How one reaches the right frame of mind is, as I said, their own business.

There are many things I would not do myself, and this is correct for the path I have chosen to follow. Whether or not it is the correct path for others, is again, their own business.

Namaste',
Billy Godfrey
johnnysitarwhatson
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 01:18 p.m.

But interesting: you have to be a good, well trained musician to perform drunk and deliver good music - sort of a fight against the substance? Like V. Khan, who was proud that nobody thought he was drunk.
So all these substances are part of the training . . :-)
Anyway, untrained, lazy players like me shouldnt drink and play . . .
What does 420 say? Explain, please, I'm German and dont get the reation to pot . . tnx
Remco_Helbers
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 01:57 p.m.

I think being a professional musician is a very, very difficult job, so lot of insecurities will pop up and be amplified by the fact that they're in the limelight. For a lot of musicians alcohol or drugs will be a cover for their insecurity. Maybe in the beginning people won't notice, but in the end The Music will always suffer.

I also don't nessicarilly believe Indian music is spiritual perse: all music, when performed with focus and dedication has the power to be spiritual. I've seen country- concerts that were downright spritual (Johnny Cash) and seen sitar- concerts that sucked big time, lot's of bad vibes and lousy music. It's up to the player to make it spiritual. . . But I assume for a lot of people Indian music is still connected with hippies, the sixties, fake guru's etc.

At my work I'm viewed as some hippie because I play sitar and I can assure you: I've got a short haircut and smoke no pot (being from Holland that will sound unbelievable). . . I'm a vegetarian though. . .

Peace,

Remco
Stephen
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 04:26 p.m.

One of the forefathers of the USA, Ben Franklin once said "God gave us beer to show us that he wanted us to be happy. He also grew a lot of hemp and wrote the book "Fart Proudly". But Ben didn't play sitar. My point being that if you have banged out several hours of practice and are done with playing music for the day, you very well might deserve a beer.
Jeff
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 03:45 p.m.

If you want to drink, then drink, if not, then dont. Ya wanna smoke some marijuana, then smoke some marijuana! Should marijuana be legal here in the USA? Of course it should be legal here in the USA! Its a very stupid law that makes it illegal here!
If anyone disagrees with me about this then F@%$K OFF!!!

Do I smoke marijuana?,,,,,, No.
Do I drink?,,,,,,,, I just quit!
Do these stimulants help people play?,,,, Depends on the person!
Did these stimulants help me play any better?,,,,,, Sometimes.
Any worse?,,,,,,, Sometimes.

Should people do drugs and drink? Its up to the individual.
Should you drive while on drugs or drink?,,,,,,, Naaaa!

Is ICM spiritual?,,,,,, No,, not to me.
Do I find spirituality in anything?,,,,,,,,,,,,, Only when I take a good dump,,,, then I have a sense of oneness with the universe!

Jeffrey R King
Jeff
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 04:45 p.m.

I always liked that "Ben". He just seemed like a cool guy!

I wonder if he was doped up or drunk when he flew that kite into a lightening storm?

I read he fancied the young lassie's too!

Jeffrey R King
Estiven
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 08, 2003 08:47 p.m.

I thought this was a SITAR forum.

It seems to me, that everyone is getting a little off topic here. I don't know if some of you are being sarcastic or not, but a few of these posts are a bit inapropiate to what this thread was originally asking (or was there even a question to begin with?). Am I wrong?
Beenkarji
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 09, 2003 12:46 a.m.

Well I guess its each man to his own device, but please do it with some responsibilty and respect. Maybe its my religious background that has made me so strict about drugs (which alcohol is), and other nasty vices.
My point is if you plan on having a true respect for the spiritually context of Indian Classical Music, then you better learn to get high off the music, and not drugs. I just today was practicing only for a few minutes, and sometimes I will let raags just come to me, and I right them down and find out the name, I had one goin that would be as follow (a lot like darbari kanada) Sa re ma pa komal ni (hower when you descend towards re you kind of give a little gamak of komal ga). Anyways it absolutelly made me break down, and I couldn't stop playing, now that was a wonderfull feeling. Maybe that is why music exists, maybe thats why you need a sober mind to appreciate its effects.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
Billy
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 09, 2003 09:53 a.m.

Estiven (Oct 08, 2003 08:47 p.m.):
I thought this was a SITAR forum.

You're absolutely right, this is a sitar forum! I think being a sitar forum covers all aspects of playing sitar. I appreciate the spiritual side of music, especially ICM and the sitar, so it is interesting to me to find out about others thoughts of playing. Playing the sitar, and one's state of mind and sobriety, and whether or not it affects their playing, seems to me to be about sitars just as much as whether a RRS is better than MPS.

Not all topics will appeal to everyone. If I start reading a topic that doesn't appeal to me, I don't continue reading it, I go to the next topic.

Namaste',
Billy Godfrey
Jeff
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 09, 2003 10:00 a.m.

Estiven (Oct 08, 2003 08:47 p.m.):

I don't know if some of you are being sarcastic or not, but a few of these posts are a bit inapropiate to what this thread was originally asking (or was there even a question to begin with?). Am I wrong?

YEP!

Jeffrey R King
Jeff
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 09, 2003 10:55 a.m.

Well well well,,,, Its seems we have a few self-righteous crusaders here. And again, it seems I am the target of these self imposed censures' telling me what I should write, think or how to act on this forum. Maybe I'm not being told in a direct manner, but I can tell a scolding when I read one.

So,,,,,,,, instead of tip-toeing around this wonderful forum so as not to alarm or shock any of our more timid and delicate members, I will not be returning here after I post this 'post?,,,,,,.

In all actuality I have become irritated by one or two members here who seem to find it necessitous to inject their morals on others.

I could dis-regard this whole matter but I wont,
could we all do without this "Drama" I am inflicting now? Sure!!!

Is this post a little strange? You bet it is!
You try to stop smoking cold turkey and tell me you wont be acting retarted! :-)

Hows that for off topic you little school girls!

And,,,, a certain someone here wouldnt know sarcasm if it jumped up and bit him in the ass!!!

So to all my friends here, if I have any "Good-bye".
And to the thought police who patrol here,, PISS OFF!!!

Jeffrey R King
Billy
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 09, 2003 02:22 p.m.

Jeff (Oct 09, 2003 10:55 a.m.):
So to all my friends here, if I have any "Good-bye".
And to the thought police who patrol here,, PISS OFF!!!

Wow Jeff, I'm not really the judgemental type, but you are being a bit touchy aren't you? However, having successfully gone cold-turkey myself many years ago, I know how that can affect a person, and I wish you all the luck in the world, and will keep you in my thoughts.

You know me well enough to realize that I am not bashful about my spiritual path, but its a personal thing that I feel is up to the individual person. While I won't hide my belief that the world would certainly be a better place if more followed such paths, I also believe that the greatest gift given to mankind is Free Will. I would rather have that, than a world full of puppets.

So Jeff, you *are* free to do what you want. However, those who protest postings here are also free to do so, at least under the standards of this group. Nevertheless, again I believe it is also easy to skip over threads that are not "on topic" enough for those who don't care to read such things, rather than making a fuss over it all.

So again, you are free to do what you want, and I hope you will feel free to come back here and join in again.

Namaste',
Billy Godfrey
Jan
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 10, 2003 08:14 a.m.

Ok, im about to finish of what i started.
This tread was a subjective call on my behalf and it was just to move my reaction to the story about the drunk whisteling guy in another topic.
There was no question in my first post, and i guess i may have provoked someone out there. It was not the intention, but if somebody has something to say about this then all is free to comment.
I could have adressed this in many ways, im aware that many people only play when they are intoxicated and some never.

The point was to express what i feel approaching my sitar and how i feel i can treat it with the respect i beleave it deserves. I dont look down on people who have chosen another angle to experience/influence their playing. And i fully respect people wo need to do what they need or want to do before they play.

I just tried to express how i feel about playing my sitar whan im intoxicated with alcohol. It is not for me.

Anyhow, this is just a thing i have with the sitar, i dont see nor do i feel any similar conflict using my Djembe (african drum) or my Guitar while beeing mentally sidelined by alcohol.

Is this of topic? i agree but then i dont, its a dualism, that is hard to define.

I never touch my sitar with my shoes on.
Its just who i am, im like that. If you need to fill up your boots with pigsblood before you handle your sitar. If it makes you happy, if it feels good, and if it blends in with your way of life then im really glad on your behalf.


Jan
pb
Re:whats hot and whats not! Oct 10, 2003 09:27 a.m.

Haha, Jeff, hard to know when you are serious, but if so, I guess we will need someone new to crack wise and add some levity to the place. Maybe try the patch or gum and think about coming back :-) Good luck with the giving up the smoke.

Pb
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