INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: Going back to Cali, (Calcatta)

But, word also got to the US from commissioned "agents" in the field, trying to source a good quality sitar for a reasonable price. There aren't that many retailers in the US, and word spread among them all quickly. A couple fo them (Peter yes, Bruce I don't know) took a chance and bought a few to see how they would sell. Some of us took a chance too and bought one. Overall, the results seem to have been favorable, according to owners' word of mouth. But as you say, his production has to be limited to keep the quality up. So even now, you don't find many retailers selling them. Not because of quality, but because of demand exceeding supply. These sitars are not cheap ripoffs, made for mass comsumption. So, not smoke and mirrors. Supply and demand.

From all I hear nowdays, the Shristi is another up and coming quality sitar. But once again, it is word of mouth that sells these things! From what we've all heard here, results are once again favorable.

A

Anyhow, this in only my secondary interest in knowing that what these people advertise is the truth or just a market hype?

My primary concern is finding a knowledgeable sitar maker in calcutta with ready stock.

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Vishal (Sep 04, 2003 03:49 p.m.):
Thank you for the feedback. However that still leaves 1 question unanswered. He specifically said that he made only 4 - 5 sitars per month, which means there is no way possible or a very slight chance that anyone in the US was able to sell his sitars. I mean people think about it, do you honestly believe that Buckingham or AACM only sold 1 sitar a month between the two of them?

Anyhow, this in only my secondary interest in knowing that what these people advertise is the truth or just a market hype?

My primary concern is finding a knowledgeable sitar maker in calcutta with ready stock.

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As a matter of fact, Peter typically sold one MPS every 6 weeks on average, and he never had more than a couple to show. If Sri Sharma has none in his shop to show you, then you know they all all pre-ordered, and go out the moment they're finished. Building 4 sitars a month is moving along pretty fast. From what I saw, AACM only had the one MPS to sell. They did not buy in stock.

I will be in Calcutta between the 15th & 16th. If you could provide me with the contacts telephone numbers and address that would be great!. Since im going all the way to India for this, and it wouldn't make a difference for taking it back with me on the airlines (cost for extra luggage). I might aswell ask for their highest grade of instrument, (teak wood). and since it would be a lot cheaper to buy in India.

Thanks in advance.

I will be in Calcutta between the 15th & 16th. If you could provide me with the contacts telephone numbers and address that would be great!. Since im going all the way to India for this, and it wouldn't make a difference for taking it back with me on the airlines (cost for extra luggage). I might aswell ask for their highest grade of instrument, (teak wood). and since it would be a lot cheaper to buy in India.

Would you also have the contacts for Paul & Co. harmoniums?

I've heard they are considerable better then the Pakrashi. (I know im in the wrong forum when I ask this)

Thanks in advance.

Russ I thought you said we only had 1 sitar a hemen in stock that you saw and "stand firm on that". if that is the case then how are you qualified to comment on the quality of our mps that you did not see , wait a sec you did say you saw the mps now I am confused

It is so easy for one person to post with many IDs on the internet. . . .

A

Personally I like the gottuvadhyam. .but will feel no regrets is the vichtra veena vanishes from the universe. The tone/sustain sucks. . .my opinion. Mohan veena sounds sooo much better tonally.

Also Ravikiran's new GV for example is nothing but an electronic guitar. While the tone is compromised (for the moment), the sustain is much better. .so more gayaki. . .increasing the range of the abilities. As you can see the change is both good and bad.

I see nothing wrong with someone trying to carve a niche or modify instruments. Time will tell if the instrument will last or not. .like you provided examples. For example, I think that the veena is in many way an inferior instrument to the gotuvadhyam. . But is the dominant one.

If you can accept the sarod and sitar overtaking its ancestors, I would think the logic/sentiment could be extended to modern instruments as well.

My 2 paisas. (whuch my the way has a 2/45 value of a cent).:-)

A

By way of example of instrument evolution: the sarode is an advanced rabab. The rabab has almost no meend; while the sarode excels in meend. My instructor has played rabab for 25 years, but after we saw wajahat khan he wants to try sarod because it has such few limitations. I think music is the driving force, the instrument is secondary.

If there was a more modern sitar out there (there may be, but I haven't heard one with the same sound), I would still feel warm and fuzzy about the old style, but I would buy the advanced one as well. Look at vilayat khan's sitar with the gear like things for the ma string and one or more of the chicaris. I think that is a valid inovation. Like amativa said, the only constant is change.

Pb

Peace,

Remco

Peace,

Remco

Some Sitar shops (Sitarsetc or Buckingham (maybe more of the sitardealers have it, but i have only seen it at those two sites)) has the following to offer: twin-head piezo transducer system. Or do a google for: twin-head piezo transducer system.

jan

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Remco_Helbers (Sep 27, 2003 07:23 a.m.):
Are there any players out there that have tips on amplifying/recording a sitar BTW?

Peace,

Remco

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I know the system, both my teacher uses the system and a friend uses one. Both are not satisfied with it. It is easier to use than a regular mike (less prone to feedback), but the system seems to take away a lot of the original character of the instrument. Also when played in a band situation (as my friend does) it picks up a lot of enviromental sounds. He told me when playing with a drummer it is a disaster: as soon as the drummer hit a kick it comes across very loud though the pick up. (Now I know a lot people will throw up at the idea of using a sitar in a band, but this is just to paint an example. .) My teacher told me she actually prefers an ordinary mike, because it will sound way more natural and realistic. .

Peace,

Remco

I guess that in a setting with more than one instrument, you would have to use microphones with a narrow focus (directional mic) to only get the sound from the sitar.

They use the Piezo to mic allmost any acoustic instrument. It should be able to make it work on a Sitar. Perhaps it should be mounted under the jawari feet, in the same way they mount it on a cello. (under the bridge.)

Jan

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Remco_Helbers (Sep 27, 2003 10:58 a.m.):
(Now I know a lot people will throw up at the idea of using a sitar in a band, but this is just to paint an example. .)

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Hi Remco, I don't ask this in a defensive way or anything, just out of curostiy, what is the matter with playing sitar in a band? Is it frowned upon? Did anyone see the movie American Chai? I thought it sounded kind'a cool. Am I a bad sitar student for thinking that?

Steve

Peace,

Remco

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Beenkarji (Sep 26, 2003 01:23 a.m.):
Maybe I am a stubborn traditionalist, or just afraid to make other instruments extinct. But why do we need the Hansa Veena, Mohan Veena, when the vichitra veena, and gotuvadyam, are struggling to stay alive. I sometimes think an artist will create a new instrument just so they become popular,

I have heard Mohan veena, and to be honest, it is basically a slide guitar with chickari, and tarab strings,

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Ted,
Any new instrument is a good thing. Is it not?
All musical instruments will find someone' to express themselves on that instrument. No matter how strange that instrument seems to you and I. And IMHO, the stranger the better.

I just love to hear new things and new music.
I like the discovery of it all.

I tip my hat to you for your many ambitious pursuits in instrument repair and experimentation, the playing and collection of sitars and Veenas, the accomplishments you made on some type of drum you mentioned on the tabla forum, your soon to be pilgrimage to India and your interest in the accordion.
Your talents are astounding and inspirational to us all.

Thank you!!!!

:-)

AS>>>Ted, I would not confuse religion with instruments or music. Indian instruments are no less or more sacred than others. A hindoo :-) (whatever definition you choose) or a non-hindu or an aethist's relationship with music can be as goos/bad acroos. I have always failed to see the connection. Respect for an instrument/medium in general is one things. .but guitar is no less scred than bongo drum . .or sitar or been. Similarly Jazz is as sacred as north Indian music. . .although some southeners feel their music is more sacred. Crap. .

Putting a mic inside and instrument really warps the sound, and also will give you tons of feedback, believe me, . . .

AS>>>> Strangely Asad Ali tried very hard to use a pickup here in Austin. .on his last tour Due to wear/tear in the wiring, he finally resorted to putting a mic in the lower gourd of the instrument (Been) and performed. :-) I think it may depend on the instrument and conditions.

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Beenkarji (Sep 28, 2003 02:24 a.m.):
Hey, thanks Jeff, appreciate the comment. About being a traditionalist, for some reason I just am always that way, but of course new and exciting instruments are cool. Right now I am under the spell of Polish Bagpipes, but beyone Hindustani music, I am an accomplished accordion player, and Maum Kaen, or master kaen player. I sometimes feel strange playing all these instruments when some musicians say to stick to one, but then again the experience and skill you learn from one instrument, you transfer to another.

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Aallaudin Khan (Maihar) is touted to have performed on many instruments. .although violin and Sarod were supposedly his fav. I think there is nothing wrong with trying out different instruments. But your point is taken, can once become a master of all. I guess it depends on your talents, energy level, and goals. It has the great potential of bringing the best of human nature and bridging gaps. .or taking music to places that we have not yet experienced.

Trey Anastasio of the band Phish has an interesting "theory", if you will, about the nature of music. Basically, all music is out there, somewhere in the universe, ethers, etc. We use instruments to tap into this pool of music, color it with our own experiences, emotions, etc., and transmit it to the listener. The image Trey conjures up is that of a hose, spraying the audience with music!

A great analogy. The point, as I see it, is that it doesn't matter what you play or what you play it on - it's all about making an emotional connection of some sort with the listener and/or yourself.

Hey Beenkarji,
I had heard that there was some sort of curse involved with make the been. Do you know what it is, and what rights have to be performed?

Pb

A musical device is just that and nothing more. It should be cared for and treated as such.

They are man made inventions.

It is like a cancer and should be stamped out at all cost.

Now on to politics ,,,,,,,,, :-)

Regarding religious significance and instruments: I don't treat my sitar as a religious instrument, I treat it with care because it is a delicate instrument and I enjoy playing it. The end is the same, but my motivation is different.

I had heard about the been-curse a while ago and I wanted to know more. I just find it interesting.

Pb

where would we be without politicians Billy?
I'll tell ya where! We'd all be in some wild flower meadow holding hands singing and dancing in a circle, Thats Where!!!
Now,,,, we cant have that can we? :-):-):-):-):-):-)

Have CDs - and even vinyl in McLaughlin's case - by all of the above, except for the last.

"Matt, I think you will come to learn after time that there is so much good music out there. ."

Sorry, can't stomach this arrogance. I've got a music collection of 3000 + titles so I'm well aware of how much good music is out there. Do you think I'm in high school?

"I can understand how someone like you could enjoy their music"

"Someone like me" - what does that mean? How can you presume to know anything about me?

"most of the people in this forum are serious musicians"

I've rehearsed 7-8 hours/week with the same fusion trio for the past 14 years. Is that serious enough for you?

"Oops I farted again, blah blah blah blah, oh baby baby!"

I'm glad somebody in this forum recognizes the sheer genius of Trey Anastasio, I mean everybody talks about Ustad this and Pandit that, But who is the real musical master? Who else can write Shakespeare-level lyrics like "run like an antelope out of control", create mozart-equivelant licks like on "slave to the traffic light"? Who is the only musician that can shoot near-fatal doses of heroin and still sing "I've been wading in the velvet sea"? Who else can get a blow job from some stupid skid hippie chick and still go home to his wife and kids? Who else can tap into the "universe of music" like the god that we call Trey Anastasio? I mean the gods themselves could not jump on trampolines and play cheesier sounds than come out of any normal person's asshole at the same time! Thanks for this quote from such a high level of musician as that of the Indian classical musicians discussed in this forum. I think you meant to go to the Trey Anastasio fan club page, where dork phish kids can talk about getting spun and being one with Fishman's dress, not a page where real musicians are discussed.

It's clear that I need to change my listening habits. Please provide a list of "real" musicians and I will be sure to discard the items in my collection that aren't acceptable.

Peace,

Remco

Peace,

Remco

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Matt (Nov 19, 2003 01:42 p.m.):
Thanks for your insightful response, Rich! Excellent job of perpetuating stereotypes. Might I suggest that next time you also mention the fact that those of us who enjoy Trey & Co. have an aversion to bathing and smoke pot 24/7?

It's clear that I need to change my listening habits. Please provide a list of "real" musicians and I will be sure to discard the items in my collection that aren't acceptable.

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No problem, Matt, happy to point out the inferiority of Phish and Trey Anastasio. As for the stereotypes, please show me in my post where I perpetuated one, I'd love to know. And a list of musicians for you to listen to, I have'nt the time, but how about next time instead of putting on the trancendent album Hoist, listen to real music like that of John Mclaughlin, Zakir Hussain, Edgar Meyer, Shivkumar Sharma. Don't get me wrong, listen to whatever you want (I myself am fond of Heavy D and the boys), just don't put a such a good quote on the forum and say it's from a loser musician, it kind of ruins the effect. It's like quoting Mike Tyson saying E=mc^2. I don't care if Trey did say this, he obviously stole it from somebody. Matt, I think you will come to learn after time that there is so much good music out there, even a universe, but "Trey and Co." hasn't the slightest clue on how to tap into that universe. They are drug addict pop stars who have sold out to the highest level. I can understand how someone like you could enjoy their music, but take it from somebody who liked them for a long time in junior high school, most of the people in this forum are serious musicians and don't want to hear about some cheesy boy band.