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INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: Black stuff, varnish and glue!

 

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Jan
Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 09:27 a.m.

Hi all!

Anyone out there that has any idea of what the black stuff on the decoration that gose around the Sitar is? I ate some by accident and im feeling pretty wierd. . . just kiddig, but really, i found that its some soft stuff kind of playdoe like. My sitar is missing some and i would just like to fill in the gaps.

Another thing is the glue like stuff one would use to asure that the Jawari isnt moving around, i know som of you guys have been talking about it, but i just cant remember what its called. Anyway, how do i make that stuff, or where do hold of some lasting me 2 or 3 lifetimes?

Finally the varnish, is there anyway to get hold of this?

Jan
K.K.
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 02:01 p.m.

Hi Jan:
I don't know what the wax-like coloring they use for the decoration is, but I'm sure someone on the forum would know about this.
I think the "glue like stuff" that you are referring to is shellac, which is what the finish on the sitar is. (not varnish) The good stuff comes in dry form (granuals or flakes) and is mixed with denatured alcohol or Everclear, if you can get it.
Don't use the pre-mixed shellac from the hardware store, as it might not be fresh. This is important because if it's not fresh, it won't dry hard.
Do a search on the Net for "shellac" to find lots of info and sources for the stuff. There's also lots of info in the Sitar Forum archives on this subject.
Personally, I wouldn't glue the bridge down unless it's slipping during a meend. If you just need to retain the position of the bridge for changing the strings, etc., just use a pencil to mark where the bridge sits. Every time you glue the bridge down and break it loose for repositioning, you're adding or breaking away thin layers of shellac, which changes the leveling of the bridge.
If you really must glue the bridge down, don't overdue it, just use a little tiny drop. When the bridge is positioned where you want it, take a very small pointed paint brush and dab a small drop where the foot of the bridge meets the tabli. Do it on the inside edge where it won't show.
The trick way of positioning your bridge is by installing a pin in the tabli. The problem with this is you want to make sure the bridge is sitting where it's going to be for the rest of it's life, unless you don' t mind drilling holes all over the tabli.
Beenkarji
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 02:17 p.m.

It regards to the sticky black stuff, that is just shipping crate wax, the two most common colors of it being red and black, hence that is probably what your design contains on your sitar. Simply take some of the wax and drip it into the spots where it is missing, using a candle or some other heat source (of course use masking tape to protect the other areas) and let it cool down. All you have to do now is scrape off the excess with a flat-edged object like a razor blade, just be carefull not to press the blade, and/or damage your finish.
You really dont need to glue your jawari, odds are it just was sticking to the finish, and that what held it there. I dont know where the whole gluing the jawari idea came from but it is pointless, because there are going to be times where the climate dictates you have to move your jawari slightly and if it is glued that is going to cause a problem.
About the finish on the sitar, it basically is a base coat of shellac, and then oil-based finish, and then coats of shellac on top to make it shiny. Its an are and dont confuse it with the french polish on violins(which is almost identical in technique), it is a bit different and has a few extra steps involved.
The wax and jawari will be easy to fix for you, but I leave the finishing choice up to you, you may just want to find a person specializing in tantu vadya repair and they can help you out.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
Jan
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 02:21 p.m.

Thanks, So if Varnish = Shellac then that i what i need.
I will do a net search, i just cant imagine that i can go to the local paintshop and ask the drewling guy there for Shellac and get the stuff i want. But then again, miracles are known to happen in Norway as well.

The black stuff isnt really important, i can find any other black mass to fill the missing gaps, but it would be nice to have the same material in there and at least know what it is.

guess the colour in the shellac is some kin of pigment. I will contact Rikhi Ram about this and the black stuff, dont know why i didnt contact them first. .


Jan
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 03:34 p.m.

Wax? Playdoe? What the hell are you guy's talking about? I don't have any of that stuff on my sitar's. Where exactly is this "gunk" suppose to be? On the "bindings"?,,,,,,,,

I just looked on my MPS, there's no wax on it. The decorative "binding" is some sort of plastic is'nt it?

Jeffrey R King
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 03:46 p.m.

And isnt the decorations made with ink?
Jeffrey R King
Beenkarji
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 05:12 p.m.

Hi, The inlay on the sitar is made out of celluloid that is engraved and then filled with wax, all sitars have been made with this for at least the past 100 years or so, so yours has to have it. And also, please keep the swear-words to a minimum, I am not very fond of them.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 07:37 p.m.

Since when the hell is "hell" a swear word? Why dont you send me a list of words you "dont" like and I'll be sure to censor my writings for you.
Does anything else bother you? If you see a female nipple on TV will you run uncontrolled in the streets raping and robbing like the FCC fears we will all do? If you happen to glance at a swastika' will you start goose stepping to "Deutschland uber Alles"?
Do you throw paint on women who wear mink coats?
But,,, if you want me to never write "hell" again I wont write hell. I'll write Hades instead, is that ok? Or what about T'uat? Thats the ancient egyptian word for hell. How about we take the H word out of the bible? As far as I know its everywhere in that book.
Well, I'm done ranting and making a fool of myself for now. And Ted,,, In all friendliness "have a helluv a day" and lighten up. :-)
Jeffrey R King
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 08:38 p.m.

He*lo Ted,
Your very right about my foul writng habits, I'm sorry.
Jeffrey "Hell Hound" King
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 09:47 p.m.

Well looky here! I was going thru some recent posts and this is what I found on the "cruelty" post, thread #3 and I quote,,,
"What I do musically or repair wise is none of his damn business".
You wrote that Ted! You wrote DAMN! Did your morals jump a little in the last few weeks?
Now dont go and change that thread,it should be kept for posterity!
Jeffrey "Gone to Hell" King
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 10:10 p.m.

Beenkarji (Aug 27, 2003 05:12 p.m.):
Hi, The inlay on the sitar is made out of celluloid that is engraved and then filled with wax, all sitars have been made with this for at least the past 100 years or so, so yours has to have it. And also, please keep the swear-words to a minimum, I am not very fond of them.

By golly your right it is celluloid! :-)

Jeffrey "Gone to Hell" King
Jette
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 10:44 p.m.

Seriously - and with love Ted, mellow out a bit. I really do not feel Jeff meant anything via that word except to make an emphatic statement. This board has become very hostile since you made public last week the apparent 'cruelty' directed your way. I would have thought the many responses to that might have humbled you a teeny bit. I think it a tad innappropriate that you should be telling us how to hold a discourse. It's a public forum. People from all walks of life exchange ideas. Just get back in line. End of subject, End of thread. Let's begin anew. DEAL?

Hi, The inlay on the sitar is made out of celluloid that is engraved and then filled with wax, all sitars have been made with this for at least the past 100 years or so, so yours has to have it. And also, please keep the swear- words to a minimum, I am not very fond of them.[/quote]
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 11:09 p.m.

:-\
Jeffrey R King
Beenkarji
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 27, 2003 11:46 p.m.

Hey dont take it personally, we all swear, but I just think I see it too often from myself and others and want to make a positive change. Anyways hell is the word that the Bible Belt Baptists use to describe where I am going because I have chosen not to believe in their "gift". But true, hell is a usefull word, so I guess might as well use it if it means a lot to you.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
Jeff
Re:Black stuff, varnish and glue! Aug 28, 2003 12:54 a.m.

Done and done,,,,, and I mean done.
Jeffrey R King
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