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INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: Sound - Ti

 

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patience
Sound - Ti Mar 08, 2004 11:03 a.m.

Hi all,
As we know the sound 'Ti" can be produced in several ways. Please educate me which "Ti" needs to be used when the theka has 'Ti' sound like in Keharwa tal (Dha Ge Na Ti Na Ka Dhi Na)? Is this "Ti" on maidan or on sayhi?

Patience!
aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 08, 2004 07:52 p.m.

patience (Mar 08, 2004 11:03 a.m.):
Hi all,
As we know the sound 'Ti" can be produced in several ways. Please educate me which "Ti" needs to be used when the theka has 'Ti' sound like in Keharwa tal (Dha Ge Na Ti Na Ka Dhi Na)? Is this "Ti" on maidan or on sayhi?

Patience!

Dear Patience,

Describing a bol sound is something like describing an aroma. You can verify it's source but it's it's effect is often subjective.
As with all "thekas" it is primarily a theoretical construct and it's practical purpose among other things is to give 'cues' to the performer and to the audience of certain dynamics in the count of the taal. (There are in fact dozens if not a hundred variants of Keharwa taal.)
As such, each bol of the theka can be said to 'sound' as many ways as there are human voices each with a distinct inflection and degree of emphasis.
I am not trying to be evasive in my answer but instead suggest an important and essential context which is often overlooked when a question like yours is asked.
You should ask your teacher or someone to demonstrate the theka so you can both see how it is played and hear it and it's equivalent dynamics.

Sincerely,
Aanaddha
Chowdhury
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 08, 2004 10:58 p.m.

In the simplistic form it "Dha Ge Na Ti. . ." could be played as

1. Tin (Syahi with right and Ka with left)

2. Ti (right middle finger stroke) in syahi which is non resonating.

Ti / Tin is used in many other different forms in various other Prakars of Keharwa. I quite agree with what Annadha has mentioned in his reply.

Hope it helps.

Roy Chowdhury
Singapore
oli
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 09, 2004 08:58 a.m.

Thanks, always wondered the same myself and played a mixture of tin and te. Aanaddha - I really like what you said about bols and i guess it answers my previous question. For example, one bol can be played in many ways with completely destinct sounds, and the sound of a bol can be manipulated to help the flow of a tala. I think you're right in saying it's a theoretical construct - a tool. And i'm glad you think that they should be personalised. I think a lot of my problems stem from thinking (as an English speaker) that i'm using a foriegn language, so i have the illusion that bols are something alien to me (even after 2 years or more). But that's rubbish of couse, and when i'm using them well i think i do personalise them - not change them, just that they become my tools rather than someone elses. Sorry, I rambled.
Aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 09, 2004 09:53 a.m.

[quote]patience (Mar 08, 2004 11:03 a.m.):
Hi all,
As we know the sound 'Ti" can be produced in several ways. Please educate me which "Ti" needs to be used when the theka has 'Ti' sound like in Keharwa tal (Dha Ge Na Ti Na Ka Dhi Na)? Is this "Ti" on maidan or on sayhi?
--------------
Dear Patience,
You were seeking a simple answer to a seemingly simple question.
Rather than looking at our failure to provide you with a simple, clear, and concise answer as indicative of the liabilities of learning this instrument you should look at the advantages:
Unlike many western musical instruments and the western musical tradition and notation, the Indian classical music tradition and it's theory and practice incorporate unique and beautiful subtleties that cannot be grasped from texts or a 'learn-to-play' manual alone.
Another advantage is that to learn to perform Indian classical music and on its instruments requires not only a commitment to a teacher but a relationship with an experienced and practiced artist as well. Those people who think that lessons are a merely a preference and not a requirement will certainty either lose interest or fail to progress.
Adhering to these concepts will give you a distinct advantage over those people who believe that they can learn anything on their own or through a variety of sources and who likewise underestimate the depth and complexities of the music of India and over-estimate their abilities.
Your observations and questions and the observations and questions of others in this forum are challenging, stimulating, and often thought provoking � even if the answers are not what you expect, they may be of value to you later at another stage in your commitment to tabla as they are to us and to other readers. Best wishes and keep in touch with your progress,

Sincerely,
Aanaddha
Aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 09, 2004 10:28 a.m.

Dear oli,
The bols are not so much "personalized" as that they are always presented in a context that is relevant to the purpose and to the music. It's that the purpose is not always immediately evident to the inexperienced ear. To most of us it is still very much a "foreign language".

Also, I meant to include you and Paulji as well as Patience specifically in my previous comment.
Keep in touch,

A.

oli (Mar 09, 2004 08:58 a.m.):
Thanks, always wondered the same myself and played a mixture of tin and te. Aanaddha - I really like what you said about bols and i guess it answers my previous question. For example, one bol can be played in many ways with completely destinct sounds, and the sound of a bol can be manipulated to help the flow of a tala. I think you're right in saying it's a theoretical construct - a tool. And i'm glad you think that they should be personalised. I think a lot of my problems stem from thinking (as an English speaker) that i'm using a foriegn language, so i have the illusion that bols are something alien to me (even after 2 years or more). But that's rubbish of couse, and when i'm using them well i think i do personalise them - not change them, just that they become my tools rather than someone elses. Sorry, I rambled.
scodoha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 09, 2004 11:41 a.m.

In Robert Gottleib's books he notes that ti with a hyphen over it indicates a tun of sorts, maybe a little less pronounced, except as noted in the farukhabad transcriptions in which it is notated as tu. They seem to play a little smoother for me that way.
patience
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 09, 2004 10:44 a.m.

Thank you all.
Aanaddha. thank you for teaching Bol's philosophy. I am like a baby just learning to crawl in the domain of tabla music. At this stage, I really don't know the simplicity or complexity of the question. But good thing is my innocent curiosity pulled so much useful knowledge.

Thank you.

Patience!
Aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 09, 2004 12:19 p.m.

I've heard keharwa theka described as the "gait of a donkey". Theoretically, any bols or bol combinations could be utilized in the performance of the theka, and, depending on the degree of your talent and expertise the effect will be pleasing or not - like a donkey, a donkey with a physical challenge, or some other poor creature in distress .

A.
Aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 09, 2004 12:19 p.m.

I've heard keharwa theka described as the "gait of a donkey". Theoretically, any bols or bol combinations could be utilized in the performance of the theka, and, depending on the degree of your talent and expertise the effect will be pleasing or not - like a donkey, a donkey with a physical challenge, or some other poor creature in distress .

A.
Aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 10, 2004 11:14 a.m.

mewan (Mar 10, 2004 09:09 a.m.):
these bols' series made a laggi lahri

dha ( normal dha with pressed gai up)
gai ( not pressed )
na ( ta )
tin ( tou + ke )
na ( ta )
gai ( not pressed )
dhi ( tin + gai a little bit pressed )
na ( ta )

i hope that it will help you bye

Mewan is correct - it's the baya that really makes keherwa stand out - most people wouldn't recognize the taal without it's distinct rythmic meend.

Aanaddha
mewan
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 10, 2004 09:09 a.m.

These bols' series made a laggi lahri

dha ( normal dha with pressed gai up)
gai ( not pressed )
na ( ta )
tin ( tou + ke )
na ( ta )
gai ( not pressed )
dhi ( tin + gai a little bit pressed )
na ( ta )

i hope that it will help you bye
Shawn
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 11, 2004 09:23 a.m.

Hi everyone,

I think it's important to mention that kaherva theka has so many variations, and is so flexible in terms of bols because it is a tal mainly used in "light classical" and folk music.

The classical thekas have much less flexibility. Of course, we still improvise around them, but the main bols remain pretty much the same.

Shawn
http://www.percussionist.net
aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 11, 2004 05:32 p.m.

It also be of interest to note that theka as a form wasn't taught (and still isn't, generally speaking) as much as it was 'aquired'. My own belief is that it became a sort of 'signature' of an artist's style, proficiency, and perhaps lineage. (See James Kippen - "Tabla of Lucknow")
Most artists will not deny that to perform ati-vilambit theka in tintal, chautal, or ektal, for example, with accuracy alone, is no a simple task and requires much experience and enormous concentration to be effective.

Aanaddha
Aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 12, 2004 07:05 a.m.

I should clarify:
It is the prakar or performance variations of theka that are rarely taught.
Even in their textbook manifestations - as with peshkar and the basic kaidas for instance - what distinguishes an artist from an amateur isn't so much the notion of stylization or number of variations at his disposal but the 'Finesse' with which these forms in their inherently simple beauty are expressed.

Aanaddha
kulpreet
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 12, 2004 09:36 a.m.

[quote]Aanaddha (Mar 12, 2004 07:05 a.m.):
what distinguishes an artist from an amateur isn't so much the notion of stylization or number of variations at his disposal but the 'Finesse' with which these forms in their inherently simple beauty are expressed.


This is so very true. When I started to learn Tabla, I had this misconception that Keharwa is the easiest to learn. I was only partly correct - it is easy to learn, maybe due to its sheer ubiquity, but is very, very hard to play really well. And more often than not, the theka is ornamented and dressed up to hide the yuckiness under a veneer of tirikits and other forms of fast food. Just plain old - Dhage Nati Nake Dhina ; if one can play this crystal clear and in laya and still sound musical, one is doing well.
patience
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 12, 2004 11:10 a.m.

Hi all,
I posted this question because one of my friends who is practising vocal, needed some support in tabla. He suggested me learn and practice dadra and Kehrawa in the beginning. Though I am taking tabla lesson(focused on compositions) from a teacher, I wanted to practice "taal" at the same time. This forum is like a school.

Now I would like to add another question which is more generic. Your suggestion/opinion will always be appreciated.
In a song or some 'dhun' (where taal like kehrawa is used), it is very distinct that the bol and the speed get changed at the end of the cycle (or just before the taal reaches the sum) and enhances the beauty of sound.
What is it 'theoritically"? When is it exactly used? Please teach me some practical bols too.

Patience!
Aanaddha
Re:Sound - Ti Mar 16, 2004 01:16 p.m.

Now I would like to add another question which is more generic. Your suggestion/opinion will always be appreciated.
In a song or some 'dhun' (where taal like kehrawa is used), it is very distinct that the bol and the speed get changed at the end of the cycle (or just before the taal reaches the sum) and enhances the beauty of sound.
What is it 'theoritically"? When is it exactly used? Please teach me some practical bols too.

Patience![/quote]

What you're hearing could be something as simple as a mohara or tukara/tukada (see David Courtney - The Cadenza. ." from the index elsewhere on this site) of 2, 4, or 8,cycles with the tihai part having a having bol density double or quadruple that of the introductory part.
Or, as complex as something like a tipali gat where the bol density (tempo) of the tihai part is doubled each time, first times 1 , then, times 2, and then again times 4, landing on sam.
Hope this helps,
Aanaddha
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