INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: To All Sitar Forum Members

 

Author Message
K.K.
To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 18, 2004 08:00 p.m.


Hi All:
I�ve received several requests lately for MPS Culture Club membership cards. Although I believe that Peter C. was the first sitar enthusiast, at least in the last few decades, to take his vision to the market place, the fact is there are now many fine quality new sitars available. (Until the last couple of years, if you wanted a new sitar, you gambled on getting the �one out of twenty� decent sitars made by the one of the old names.)
Now, courageous folks like Lars J. and Tony K. have taken their love for this instrument and turned it into a business. We all know that the market for this instrument is too small for anyone to get rich off of, so why take on the headache?
The answer is �passion.�
It�s the same passion that we feel when we look at those photos of the old Nodu Mullick, Hemen, H.R., K.L., etc. sitars. Just the idea of being able to own a new instrument of that quality is exciting isn�t it?
I�ve felt this passion for the sitar and ICM since I was first exposed to it back in the �60s. (Ragas and Talas)
It�s this passion that keeps me coming back to the Sitar Forum day after day to mingle with you folks. (Thank you David)
Every time I read a post from someone who�s just received his/her new sitar, I�m able to re-live that same moment. Remember sitting up late at night just looking at your new sitar, going over every little detail
When I read a post from someone who�s dealing with the same frustrations that I dealt with when I got my first sitar, I�m able to laugh, knowing that someone on the Forum will offer up some help.
It is this passion that inspired me to create the MPS Culture Club membership cards and, putting all differences aside, in the present spirit of the Sitar Forum and Peter C. (Laughing Buddha was a daily contributor to the Forum) and by authority of Saraswati herself, I am expanding the Culture Club to all Sitar Forum members, regardless of what brand sitar, tanpura, etc. they own. (Hey, it�s the �60s all over again!)
Anyone who wants a card, just email me your name (as you want it on the card) and postal address. If possible, include the approximate date you first started visiting the Sitar Forum. Previous MPSCC members, who want new cards, please email me with your name & address. You will retain your original member number.
qehqeh@yahoo.com

Oh, BTW, what do we call it?

Bruce
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 18, 2004 09:36 p.m.


[quote]K.K. (Feb 18, 2004 08:00 p.m.):
(Until the last couple of years, if you wanted a new sitar, you gambled on getting the �one out of twenty� decent sitars made by the one of the old names.)
What do you base this assertion on? I am tired of the blatant commercial promotions that have taken over this site. There are plenty of good sitars around, and plenty of good people selling them. And NOBODY is getting rich. If you want to be inclusive, stop the implicit putdowns of any business other than those run by the one or two people you like, or have dealt with. We at AACM have been importing sitars for 30 years. We have personal relationships with all the makers you mention. (Do you mean that only one in twenty Hemens is good) We work our asses off to hook people up with good instruments. There has been no negative feedback on us from any REAL person in this forum. Like I said, if you want to be inclusive, be really inclusive.
Seth Kelly
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 18, 2004 11:20 p.m.


[quote]K.K. (Feb 18, 2004 08:00 p.m.):
Although I believe that Peter C. was the first sitar enthusiast, at least in the last few decades, to take his vision to the market place, the fact is there are now many fine quality new sitars available. (Until the last couple of years, if you wanted a new sitar, you gambled on getting the �one out of twenty� decent sitars made by the one of the old names.)

I agree with Bruce statements like this do a disservice to people trying to buy a new instrument. When I bought my first sitar I was planning on getting a HR or a Hemen but I went with a MPS because one of the people you mention told me hemen and HR don't make good instruments any more and MPS was the emerging favorite of all the pros in India. He also said that places like AACM don't have the skills to do a proper setup, that they would just send the instrument as it arrived from India. I got the MPS and was very happy with it. Eventually when it needed jewari i called him and he sent me to Brian Godden who I then found out works at AACM and dose all the setup on their sitars. Over the past few years in conversations with many professionals and amateurs alike I found that the consensus is that HR, Hemen, and RR are still by far the best makers in India. MPS dose not even show up on the radar.

I recently bought a cheaper sitar from AACM only to find it much nicer than the "top of the line" sitar I bought before at about twice the price.

Just my 2 cents worth


S Kelly

K.K.
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 18, 2004 11:52 p.m.


To Anyone I may have offended:
I do apologize...but this is my party and I'll invite whomever I want.
Actually, any and all are welcome, so come join in the fun!

Any further complaints, please call:
1-800-OHH-WAAH

pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 12:29 a.m.


Bruce,
I don't know why you have your back up, or why you feel threatened by what was said, but come on. There is a lot of crap out there. I didn't see any veiled accusation against the AACM, or you, maybe I missed it?!

I don't have the luxury of being able to drop by the AACM and trying out a bunch of sitars, or even talk to someone in a shop who plays and is knowledgeable about them. I wish I did. If I ever make it down to cali you will see me. I'd love to check out your shop.

I have seen dozens of bad sitars in the montreal and toronto area. I bought a few of them too. You have to be VERY picky or you will get screwed. People just don't have enough stock. Of the no name sitars, I think the number is probably right, if not conservative. I'm no critic of the lofty pedigree'd models, I haven't seen enough of them (yet).

So, tell me, bruce, if KK had named you as one of the good guys, would you be so angry

No need to complain about the blatant commercial promotions , this is a forum of enthusiasts, who want to help others make a good choice. This is exactly what you should expect, information, tips, assistance, names, real opinions, biases, buddy groups, rivalries. (Pardon the net nanny stance).

thanks,
Pb


Bruce (Feb 18, 2004 09:36 p.m.):
[quote]K.K. (Feb 18, 2004 08:00 p.m.):
(Until the last couple of years, if you wanted a new sitar, you gambled on getting the �one out of twenty� decent sitars made by the one of the old names.)
What do you base this assertion on? I am tired of the blatant commercial promotions that have taken over this site. There are plenty of good sitars around, and plenty of good people selling them. And NOBODY is getting rich. If you want to be inclusive, stop the implicit putdowns of any business other than those run by the one or two people you like, or have dealt with. We at AACM have been importing sitars for 30 years. We have personal relationships with all the makers you mention. (Do you mean that only one in twenty Hemens is good) We work our asses off to hook people up with good instruments. There has been no negative feedback on us from any REAL person in this forum. Like I said, if you want to be inclusive, be really inclusive.
pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 12:35 a.m.


Hey Seth,
was that the Manoj that was mentioned a while back? (I don't remember if it was you.) Cool.

Pb


Seth Kelly (Feb 18, 2004 11:20 p.m.):

I recently bought a cheaper sitar from AACM only to find it much nicer than the "top of the line" sitar I bought before at about twice the price.

Just my 2 cents worth


S Kelly


kalyan
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 03:50 a.m.


[quote]pb (Feb 19, 2004 12:29 a.m.):
Bruce,
I don't know why you have your back up, or why you feel threatened by what was said, but come on. There is a lot of crap out there. I didn't see any veiled accusation against the AACM, or you, maybe I missed it?!

Bruce has been working very hard for the last 25 years to bring the best Indian instruments available to the U.S. The instruments he has sold to thousands of musicians throughout the world have always been of just as high a standard as anything available today anywhere. The idea that Peter C. was the first person with a vision to bring quality instruments to the U.S. is ridiculous. I think it is easy to see why he would be offended when he sees someone say matter of factly that only in the last few years has there been anyone with integrity or with consistent quality in the business. Though this was probably not intended as a swipe at AACM it sort of feels that way.

pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 10:28 a.m.


Ok, I see now. Clearly, bruce deserves more credit. When I look at the aacm site, I see a generic description of the history and staff in the "about us" section. There are no bio's, so it is impossible to know about people like bruce out in cyber land. I know nothing about the people at aacm (apart from the Ustad), so how can one know of bruce's contribution to ICM? I would like to know, especially as a web customer. I think it would be a good business move to upgrade the store section to provide Internet people with everything they need to know to buy from aacm. It is a big job, but there are ways to do it, trade some cyber geek an instrument for the work

take care,
Pb


kalyan (Feb 19, 2004 03:50 a.m.):
[quote]pb (Feb 19, 2004 12:29 a.m.):
Bruce,
I don't know why you have your back up, or why you feel threatened by what was said, but come on. There is a lot of crap out there. I didn't see any veiled accusation against the AACM, or you, maybe I missed it?!

Bruce has been working very hard for the last 25 years to bring the best Indian instruments available to the U.S. The instruments he has sold to thousands of musicians throughout the world have always been of just as high a standard as anything available today anywhere. The idea that Peter C. was the first person with a vision to bring quality instruments to the U.S. is ridiculous. I think it is easy to see why he would be offended when he sees someone say matter of factly that only in the last few years has there been anyone with integrity or with consistent quality in the business. Though this was probably not intended as a swipe at AACM it sort of feels that way.


cantstand pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 11:53 a.m.


Its clear that pb is anal, for a guy that knows very little about indian music ( other than maybe owns like 2 'wanna be' sitars) he thinks of himself as a 'know it all'
I had to chance to meet him, so I am basing my opionion first hand, He can only talk trash, because of what he is.
even if he sticks a sitar up is butt, he still won't know anything about them.
Remco
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 12:02 p.m.


YYYaaaawwwwwnnnnnn....this is getting boring. We had this kinda discussion half a year ago......
Stop pissing and moaning and contribute something positive to this forum.

Peace,

Remco

pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 12:15 p.m.


I am a beginner, I have said many times. I own only 1 wanna be sitar, and one real one is one the way. know it all, hardly, maybe you haven't read my posts. Maybe I am anal, but I'm not a coward dude. So, if you have met me, tell me who you are, offline if you wish. I don't think you know me at all. I think you have an anal fetish, maybe you are in the wrong forum, maybe try one of the alt.binaries.fetish* sites to find a soul mate!


cantstand pb (Feb 19, 2004 11:53 a.m.):
Its clear that pb is anal, for a guy that knows very little about indian music ( other than maybe owns like 2 'wanna be' sitars) he thinks of himself as a 'know it all'
I had to chance to meet him, so I am basing my opionion first hand, He can only talk trash, because of what he is.
even if he sticks a sitar up is butt, he still won't know anything about them.
cantstand pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 12:33 p.m.


And I proven my point. Face it, you suck as a sitar player, (i've heard you play) so stop critizing other people that actually have knowledge of the instrument.
Keep your two cents ( and I know your a CHEAP BASTARD),

Im sorry for all the other members on this forum. But the views of Pb (paulus bastard) I just can't stand.

tarsi
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 01:26 p.m.


Stop this and practise, will you?
Remco
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 01:40 p.m.


Hey Cantstand..... I assume you must be a hell of a player.... Have you ever contributed to this forum? If you really have any guts post your real name.

Peace,

Remco

pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 01:41 p.m.


Ok, now I know for sure, you have no idea who I am. haha! I have never played for anyone, but my teacher and friends! Nice try, but a feeble attempt.

Really, dude, you are not my type.

The pathetic appology to the chorus was a nice touch! LOL,

Pb


cantstand pb (Feb 19, 2004 12:33 p.m.):
And I proven my point. Face it, you suck as a sitar player, (i've heard you play) so stop critizing other people that actually have knowledge of the instrument.
Keep your two cents ( and I know your a CHEAP BASTARD),

Im sorry for all the other members on this forum. But the views of Pb (paulus bastard) I just can't stand.


Ken
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 01:47 p.m.


KK,
What a nice thing to offer all those here. I still have my Mangla Culture Club card and as I have expressed elsewhere was very happy to get it (even though it may have no real meaning in the world) still a nice gesture and a great professional looking card.
Too bad Bruce that you feel KK's post was a negative reference to AACM it didn't appear so to me. Bruce you are also one who has helped so many. And forgive me but you do appear to have a bit of a thin skin. So Bruce why don't you try posting some helpful stuff once in a while for the newer folks instead of just replying in the negative to some percieved, and wholly unintended slight?
There have been many opportunities for you to do so but you only seem to post when you feel someone has slighted AACM, how about showing us all how helpful you can be by just participating with your help.
Aside from all that KK why don't you simply call it the "Sitar Enthusiasts Culture Club" or just "Sitar Culture Club" or how about everyone coming up with a simple name and we can vote on it....
Peace . . . uncle ken
PS, pb this guy "cantstand pb" has shown himself to be a total moron, I've never seen you post anything remotely akin to your professing to be any kind of "all knowing" pro. Anyone wishing to post such blather under an anonymous handle shows that their opinion can't stand the light of day.....
K.K.
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 02:10 p.m.


Bruce and Seth:
I have no allegiance to any sitar maker, retail dealer, or any other musical instrument related business or manufacturer. But if I want to promote any business of this type on this site, by relating my experiences with said business, to the members of this forum, I will. This would simply be one individual voicing his opinion and, as far as I know, that is not against Sitar Forum policy.

Regarding my statement about �one out of twenty� sitars made, you�ll notice that it�s in quotation marks. This implies that it�s just a figure of speech. I base this assertion only on what I�ve heard and what I�ve seen with my own eyes. It�s just my opinion.Which brings me back to my original topic. My original topic has to do with individuals (I apologize if I left any names out) who, in my opinion, have broken new ground by trying to do something different.

Kalyan:
Your statement, �The idea that Peter C. was the first person with a vision to bring quality instruments to the U.S. is ridiculous� is absolutely true. I never said that. If you re-read my original post, you�ll see that I said ��first sitar enthusiast� to take his vision to the market place��
Peter�s vision was not to just bring quality instruments to the U.S. His vision was to supply better quality instruments. Whether he succeeded or not, is a matter of opinion. And we all have the right to voice our opinion don�t we?
I�m not prejudice to MPS or any other sitar maker. I just bought a 40-year-old Rikhi Ram, and it is one of the loveliest instruments I�ve ever heard. (I�ll post about that at another time.) I�d love to own an old HR, KL, RKS, Hemen, Naskar�while you�re at it, throw in one of Ravi�s Nodu Mullicks. (Actually, Anoushka has the one that I want.)
The bottom line is, in my opinion, the �best� quality sitars being provided to us over the last few decades JUST AIN�T CUTTIN� IT! And if Peter C., Tony K., Sanjay S., AACM, or Alfred E. Newman can provide us with a better quality instrument, then I salute them.
That�s just MY opinion.

Ken:
Your idea about everyone suggesting a name for the club is what I had in mind. Maybe everyone can post suggestions then we can all whittle it down to one.

kalyan
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 02:21 p.m.


good point I guess we do need to do some work on the info on the site. It is hard to keep up on all that stuff .
thanks for your imput.
ps.
please dont think that can,t stand pb is one of us. It sounds to me like just some jerk trying to stir things up.

[quote]pb (Feb 19, 2004 10:28 a.m.):
Ok, I see now. Clearly, bruce deserves more credit. When I look at the aacm site, I see a generic description of the history and staff in the "about us" section. There are no bio's, so it is impossible to know about people like bruce out in cyber land. I know nothing about the people at aacm (apart from the Ustad), so how can one know of bruce's contribution to ICM? I would like to know, especially as a web customer. I think it would be a good business move to upgrade the store section to provide Internet people with everything they need to know to buy from aacm. It is a big job, but there are ways to do it, trade some cyber geek an instrument for the work

take care,
Pb

pb
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 02:34 p.m.


Thanks uncle Ken and Kalyan for the support. Only the famous get stalkers I guess

Kalyan
I didn't think it was aacm people, don't worry, you guys have class.

Pb


kalyan (Feb 19, 2004 02:21 p.m.):
ps.
please dont think that can,t stand pb is one of us. It sounds to me like just some jerk trying to stir things up.

[quote]pb (Feb 19, 2004 10:28 a.m.):
Ok, I see now. Clearly, bruce deserves more credit. When I look at the aacm site, I see a generic description of the history and staff in the "about us" section. There are no bio's, so it is impossible to know about people like bruce out in cyber land. I know nothing about the people at aacm (apart from the Ustad), so how can one know of bruce's contribution to ICM? I would like to know, especially as a web customer. I think it would be a good business move to upgrade the store section to provide Internet people with everything they need to know to buy from aacm. It is a big job, but there are ways to do it, trade some cyber geek an instrument for the work

take care,
Pb


jaym
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 02:45 p.m.


Could someone tell me more about this club and the card? This is the first I have heard of it.

Thanks

K.K.
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 03:41 p.m.


Hi Jaym: I'll re-post this from a previous post.

"...The term "MPS Culture Club" was coined by Sitar Forum member Russ, a couple of years ago. At the time, it seemed that most of the Sitar Forum members owned MPS sitars. I created the MPS Culture Club membership cards in honor of Buckingham Music's owner/founder, Peter Cutchy, when he passed away in 2002. If you've been to the Buckingham website, you know that Peter's vision was to offer a sitar that was built "the way they used to be built."
Peter was having the sitars built to his specs and each instrument was inspected by Sri Indrajit Banerjee before it left the shop.
The membership cards read "Specially made in India for Buckingham Music..."

For the rest of the story, start at the top of this topic.

jaym
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 03:49 p.m.


bahut accha. Ab main sochta hoon.

Thanks for the background info.

Matt
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 06:16 p.m.


[quote]cantstand pb (Feb 19, 2004 12:33 p.m.):
And I proven my point. Face it, you suck as a sitar player, (i've heard you play) so stop critizing other people that actually have knowledge of the instrument.
Keep your two cents ( and I know your a CHEAP BASTARD),

Who is this guy? Jeez, we finally had a break from all of the negativity from last fall, and this shows up. Maybe Dr. Courtney can remove it.

Jan
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 06:41 p.m.


I guess it would be possible to get a fair deal going, buying strings and things at a web based sitar shop, if one is a member in a club... or am i loosing it here?


: )

jan

cantstandbrokentarafs
Re:To All Sitar Forum Members Feb 19, 2004 07:11 p.m.


test
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