INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs?

 

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Billy
Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 13, 2003 11:36 p.m.


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Lars
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 13, 2003 11:50 p.m.


Hey Billy, you should email a tarab guitar consultant! I happen to know one....


Lars
Jeff
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 12:10 a.m.


Billy I dont know where to get these instruments but I know of two concert videos.

"The instrumental artistry of Vishwa Mohan Bhatt"

and

"Hindustani Slide by Debashish Bhattacharya"

You can find them at,
www.guitarvideos.com

They both play slide guitars with sypathetic strings on them but also I dont thnk the main strings are set up like a regulr guitar though, more like a sitar or some kind of veena.

I saw a little bit of one video and it was very good. The Mohan Bhatt one I think it was.


Jeffrey R King
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 01:14 a.m.


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Bob
Re:Taking my ball and going home Dec 11, 2003 04:32 p.m.


Stay
Neal
Re:buying my first sitar advice ? Dec 11, 2003 07:16 p.m.


Hi Alan,

Were you able to get a lesson from either David or Usha ?

Neal

hi all i modified my name a little from new-B-sitarist to this name . so at least you know my first name now , an now my question im looking at 2 sitars , 1 is the manoj kumar sardar #3 from aacm $600+sh and the shristi standard from lars of sitars etc , $795+sh which in your opinion would give me the most insturment for the money ? or should i save more and buy a higher end instrument so i dont have to up grade later on ? thanks for your opinions alan[/quote]

Jeff
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 01:35 a.m.


You should maybe try to find a luthier who would be willing to make one. Probably be a lot of $$$$ though. They're most likly specially made on a order to order basis. Search some luthery forums. Theres one call MIMF thats pretty good. They cover just about every aspect of instrument construction. I messed around with a Dan-Electro Coral sitar the other day. It seemed kinda cool but I think the novelty would wear off pretty quick with me. I know thats totally not what your looking for but you could play slide on it and it does sound sitarish, though I dont think the sympathetics work on these things.
Guitarist John McLaughlin had a few acoustic guitars made for him by a guy named Wetcher I think, that had sympathetics and a scalloped fret board. I dont know if its the same "Wetcher" as in Wetcher Guitars though.
There is also someone who makes an instrument called a "Sympitar" but the guy wants like ten grand for one. It is a neat looking instrument though.
Jeffrey R King
Amitava
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 08:51 a.m.


As Ted mentioned before...marketing hype seems to be an essential ingredient of a modern musician's career. Unfortunatly I have not had the benefit of talking to VM Bhatt or Debashish B yet.

But once upon a time there was an older musician named Brji Bhushan Kabra, who performed on this instrument as well. There probably were other folks to Indianized this instrument at the same time as BBK. (No not BBKing).

Anyone know the critical physical differences between the Mohan Veena and Debashish's unnamed veena?

Personally I prefer the tone of VBhatt, but consider Debashish a far better musician.

A

Amitava
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 09:57 a.m.


On a side note.... Ravikiran (gottuvadhaym player) has worked with Rikhiram to create a smaller version of the instrument - which looks almost nothing like the original..called Navavina.
Amitava
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 10:03 a.m.


On a side note.... Ravikiran (gottuvadhaym player) has worked with Rikhiram to create a smaller version of the instrument - which looks almost nothing like the original..called Navavina.

hmmm cant seem to figure out how to attach pics..oh well.. sorry about dangling the carrot.

Remco
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 12:01 p.m.


I saw Debasish B on his trinity guitars last weekend: mindblowing, stunning, very musical.....

here is his website:
http://www.debashishguitar.com/

Peace,

Remco

Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 12:05 p.m.


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jan
Re:learn to play sitar over the internet Dec 10, 2003 08:55 p.m.


Hello all!

I followed the link (http://www.angelfire.com/music4/sitar/Net_Teaching.htm) and signed on for a trail.
I got 3-4 e-mails from Sanjoy Bandopadhyay and my first impression is, is wow cool! I find it to be the next best thing if any of you dont have "real" a teacher.

Sanjoy Bandopadhyay sendt me a document where i describe my skills or the lack of them. In return i get a tailormade lesson to fit my needs. Allso i got a text file containing instructions and
usefull information.

I guess it will take another lesson to calibrate the student teacher relation so that the instructions will frame my playing skills.
There is a .mp3 file where he plays the whole lesson, first slow then actual speed.

But there is a price to pay, 480$ for 12 lessons over 3 months. 30 min a week.

Jan

Beenkarji
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 03:50 p.m.


The music store I work at once a month has one, its based in Chicago, email me for more info. raag_darbari_kanada@yahoo.com
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
kalyan
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 04:02 p.m.


My father and I converted my 12 string guitar to play Indian slide we don't have a picture but the design is at http://silverbushmusic.com/guitarconversion.html in the drawing he uses a 6 string with extra tuning gears I like the 12string because more pegs gives more stringing options. the design is rather simple just getting the jewari bridge right is tricky also you need to make sure the bridge is not getting too much pull upwards from raising the action so much. I f the strings are too high it can pull the bridge off or warp the face. One of the good things about converting an old guitar is that it dose not have to be a real nice one you can use an old 12 string with a bent neck( like so many of them end up anyway) because you will not use the fret board.you can also mount a rail parralel to the neck with pegs or tuners like dilruba with a sitar symp bridge and strings running from the back of the guitar like the mohan vena but that gets a little more complicated and expensive if you are not doing it yourself.
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 14, 2003 08:54 p.m.


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Sangeeta
Re:a cry in the wilderness Dec 09, 2003 12:03 p.m.



rg (Dec 08, 2003 01:52 p.m.):
that is very interesting. Could you explain how that works - do you have a speaker phone? Do you have any trouble communicating with him - like when you are playing something back. How much (if you don't mind me asking) does this cost??? Does he fax you written exercises?

rg, I use my cell phone with handfree kit and my teacher has a speaker phone. One thing I need to mention here is I have learnt Sitar regular way for about 2-3 years - out of which 1 year was with Pt. Habib Khan himself. To answer your question about exercises - he tells me the notation and I play it and also write it down in my book. He plays /sings himself too. So every thing is almost same as how it would be normally. I can only say that it is the second best thing you can do and many times better than not having a regular lesson. I would say a beginner can take a few lessons by visiting the teacher and then continue on phone and make visits as and when necessary.

Regarding cost, with my teacher, it depends on the level of the student. Not sure what it is for the beginner.

Ken,
I am doing good - how are you?
The improvement in my Sitar playing is largely attributed to special Taans Pt. Habib Khan is giving me. My singing lessons will surely help me in the long run. I am sure some day it will help me to do 'upaj' that will be useful in playing Sitar as well.

Beenkarji
Re:BINA INSTRUMENTS Oct 15, 2003 03:51 p.m.


If you contact Inni Singh at Delhi Musical Stores, formerly DMS Bina, he has two grades of rudra veena. The stardard is what he also agrees as nothing but something to look at. The second is made by someone called Bashiruddin in Miraj, I did some research and there is a Bashiruddin in Miraj, but he does not make rudra veena, he only makes tanpura, so in other words, he is willing to try his hand at making one. If you want the real thing you will have to resort to Sri Shahid Ali Shikalgar of Miraj, or the now retired Sri Murari Mohan Adhikari, but both are very picky of who they sell to, so in other words you will need your gurus reccomendation to convince them. I finally got the chance to see a rudra veena by Mangala Prasad Sharma in St. Paul, and I will give you a reference to the quality,.... it would make a nice bunch of firewood.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
kalyan
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 15, 2003 02:01 p.m.


The difficulty with the rail is just getting it mounted solidly enough to handle the tension of 10 to 12 strings without pulling up, it needs to be atached at the headstock and at the body of the guitar also possibley a support from about the half way point going to the neck. It is not really a problem its just that you will have to drill some holes so you want to make sure the design is right the first time to avoid too much damage to the guitar.
The jewari bridge on the sympathetics will need to be have much higher action than a sitar symp bridge so that it will get enough down pressure from the strings. there needs to be very solid contact between the feet of the symp bridge and the face of the instrument so the vibration of the face will activate the symp strings. Some of the symp strings will be quite short so the curve of the jewari bridge has to be just right to get any response out of them.
I hope this makes sense some of its a little hard to explain. I am hopefully going to try to add a symp strings to my guitar in the next week or two so I will post and let you know how it goes also try to get some pictures on the page with the drawing.
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 15, 2003 05:07 p.m.


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Lars
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 15, 2003 08:38 p.m.


Billy, I think I"ve seen pretty cheap dobros in the Musicians friend catalog, made by "Rogue" if I remember right....
Lars
Jeff
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 15, 2003 08:55 p.m.


I bought a Regal RD75 square neck from MF a couple of years ago that was pretty nice. I didnt play it that often so I sold it through an inter net classified to someone from Stepens town of all places.
Billy if your lookin for that sort of thing check out harmonycentral.com they have afor sale classifieds thats pretty big. You can buy and sell stuff there.
I was selling stuff through there a few years ago until some idiot from my same town started rippin people off. I stopped getting responses for my ads because of this idiot. I dont know the guy but we got into a nasty argument over the phone. He lived about a mile up the road from me. Well thats TMI isnt it!
Jeffrey R King
mark
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 15, 2003 10:42 p.m.


I own a Rikhi Ram "Hansa Veena" which I
ordered straight from them. You can check it
out on their web site. It is a well made Indian
styled slide guitar with tarabs (as opposed to a
converted guitar such as M.Bhatt). I believe the
word hansa means swan and refers to the
guitar's head stock. Take care, Mark
AJ
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 16, 2003 12:49 a.m.


[quote]Billy (Oct 14, 2003 12:08 p.m.):
Thanks for the info everyone, you've given me a lot to go on. First, let me say that this is just a lark, not something I want to pay the big bucks on.

Here is a link to the instrument that's currently on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2564496812

Its a mismash of several instruments, not what I would be looking for. But what I have previously seen is nearly the same instrument, but without the keyboard. It looked more like a standard lap steel, but with tarbs. I don't know if it was these same people are not, but I plan on writing them and asking.

Hey Billy

Thanks for that link! I got to listen to something called "Hebrew Fusion", really enjoyed it!

see ya,
AJ

Beenkarji
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Oct 17, 2003 04:30 p.m.


I think you are better off not getting that bulbultarang in looks pretty junky, its just made to look nice. Seriously, you can pretty much take any fatter-necked guitar and carefully pry off the frets, and use and epoxy finish, or steel plate over the top. The extra rack of strings would be easy to make, otherwise contact someone like Brian at Silverbush, he is great at that kind of stuff. I am sure if you send the specs he can make the extra rack and work out some sort of a jawari for you. The other option is that my friend has some kind of Indian Slide Guitar with Tarabs by Hobner, I cannot recall what you would call it. But thats another option, just call 773-868-1235 and ask for Alex, tell him Ted sent you, and he'll know what your talking about.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 10, 2003 12:09 p.m.


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johnnysitarwhatson
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 11, 2003 08:26 a.m.


Billy, I have a thing from India that is called "Indian Banjo" - an old and f---d up version of the instrument on that ebay auction. It is basically a sort of sevenchord with typewriter(!!!!!!) playing mechanism, a nice joke, but not exactly playable because of the small size and the cheap mechanics.
Better take a guitar and build something you can really slide on.
kalyan
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 11, 2003 03:38 p.m.


http://www.silverbushmusic.com/guitar_conversion n symps.htm sorry maybe the link is too long dosent seem to work but that is the address
kalyan
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 11, 2003 03:30 p.m.


Billy the MV looks nice and the price seems very good let us know what its like when it gets to you.
My dad just put the pics up on his site of the final conversion we did on my 12string here is the link http://www.silverbushmusic.com/guitar_conversion n symps.htm it sounds great with all the symps. now I just have to find time to play it.
I would not waste much time or money on an indian banjo the ones I have seen are pretty much toys, the one on ebay looks alot nicer though
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 11, 2003 03:46 p.m.


I only considered attempting to convert the instrument they were selling on eBay because it was cheap, but from the photos seemed to be fairly well made. Most "Indian Banjoes" I've seen are quite poorly made. I do remember seeing one in Nepal that was quite nice, and almost bought it.

I think going for the actual guitar conversion is the best way to go. Chand wrote today that there are actually three variations of Mohan's veena, the MV we've seen photos of, and I know theres the Vishwa Veena which includes the harp strings. I don't know what the third style is. Anyway, Chand is ordering one of each, and I'm sure he'll have them all posted on his site. Since he's the only one that I know of selling these on the Internet (and outside India) he may have a market.

He says he should have the instruments in a couple of weeks. We'll probably know more about actual costs then. It wouldn't surprise me if the price currently posted on his website changes. I think he purposely made it a little higher that what it should be, but don't quote me on it. Apparently he has no real idea what the weight it, he can make a guess based on the weight of a regular guitar, but he doesn't know how much weight the tarb extension will add, so I think he's being very conservative.

kalyan
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 11, 2003 03:51 p.m.


Sorry again cant seem to get the full address in I guss if anyone wants to see it you have to go to www.silverbushmusic.com and scroll down to the repairs and info section look under indian guitar full conversion
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 11, 2003 08:21 p.m.



kalyan (Nov 11, 2003 03:51 p.m.):
Sorry again cant seem to get the full address in I guss if anyone wants to see it you have to go to www.silverbushmusic.com and scroll down to the repairs and info section look under indian guitar full conversion

The problem is with the embedded blanks in the URL. These appear as a percent sign followed by the number 20 (I can't even type that, as it would show up as a blank!)

I've tried to make the link work in a posting usung Ultraboard codes, but it just won't work. So I guess going to the silverbush home page and scrolling down to the link is the best way to do it.

Cool conversion!


Namaste',
Billy Godfrey
Keshavdas
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 11, 2003 11:22 p.m.


Hi Billy,
About the Bulbul Tarang, I have in the past imported the better ones for some jazz musicians here in New York. The very best ones are still pretty junky. There is a wonderful Indian musician who plays at one of the terrible Indian resturants in Little India who used to be one of the top session guys in Bombay (I hate typing "Mumbai". He set up the ones i got and made them very playable. The action for the "keyed section" is very light so that the keys (which are very low-mass) can easily engage the string. I doubt whether you could put heavy strings and use a high tension tuning for slide, without some serious reinforcement.
The etiquitte around here regarding promoting anyone's business is rather touchy, but I will risk it and say that Sanjay Sharma is at present building a VM Bhatt guitar for my shop and I expect to take delivery in about 45 days. I get so many guitar-wallahs passing through my place, that I figure I'd be crazy not to have one made.
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 12, 2003 09:42 a.m.



Keshavdas (Nov 11, 2003 11:22 p.m.):
The etiquitte around here regarding promoting anyone's business is rather touchy, but I will risk it and say that Sanjay Sharma is at present building a VM Bhatt guitar for my shop and I expect to take delivery in about 45 days. I get so many guitar-wallahs passing through my place, that I figure I'd be crazy not to have one made.

I'm not so sure that its all that touchy, except when there is only one business being "promoted". As with our discussions with AACM, because a couple of us had recently purchased sitars from another business, there was a comment made that only that one store was being promoted, which would seem to be true if one had only looked at the messages for a couple of weeks after we bought those sitars; looking at messages over several months would show that no particular business was being promoted more than others.

I see no problem with you promoting your store, as well as AACM and Lars, among others. I want to know where I can find particular instruments, accessories or other ICM related merchandise. If you have something that might be of interest to me and others, especially if its an item that can't be found elsewhere, its almost a disservice *not* to tell us.

I'm looking forward to hearing how your MV turns out, and how much interest it generates!

BTW, is it Keshavdas or Keshav Das, or are both forms acceptable?


Namaste',
Billy Godfrey
Keshav Das
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 12, 2003 11:58 a.m.


Dear Billy,
Thanks - for some friendly words. After the whole "Prabhu" debacle I was wondering if there were any serious
non-paranoid folks in this forum. BTW - either form is fine.
Best,
K
rich
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 18, 2003 10:39 p.m.


Has anyone ever heard of an upright bass player from St. Louis or Kansas city who plays a bass with sympathetic strings? I've only heard a recording, but it was amazing. The guy was playing standard, non-indian music, which sounded good only because of his instrument. This instument blew my mind, being a bass and tabla player. If anyone knows of him I'd love to know his name.
kalyan
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 19, 2003 03:48 a.m.


Rich I'm not sure if this is the same person or not he plays a 5 string upright with sympathetic strings his name is Mark Deutsch he plays both western and indian classical there is a picture of his instrument at this site
http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om06200.html
Stephen
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 19, 2003 07:53 a.m.


Gladly getting off the topic of archtop veenas and onto the newer tangent of the larger viols being used in a subcontinental way, Nancy Lesh is doing Dhrupad on a (slightly modified) cello, has a few CDs available. She was a student of the Late Ustad Zia Mohiuddin Dagar for eight years.
Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 19, 2003 09:40 a.m.



kalyan (Nov 19, 2003 03:48 a.m.):
Rich I'm not sure if this is the same person or not he plays a 5 string upright with sympathetic strings his name is Mark Deutsch he plays both western and indian classical there is a picture of his instrument at this site
http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om06200.html[/quote]

Hmmm, 29 taraps? Got a couple of days for tuning?

Actually, it looks like a pretty awesome.

Now, has anyone considered putting sympathetics on a banjo or trombone?


Namaste',
Billy Godfrey
Stephen
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 19, 2003 01:16 p.m.


I did see John McLaughlin play some very believeable eastern tunes on banjo once, he was also playing some kick but guitar on a modified archtop that had a row of tarabs and the neck was scalloped out between the frets, which, if you've ever seen how slight of an action Mr. McLaughlin plays with, you'd understand just how profound of an effect this would have. Hey Matt, thanks again for that live recording of McLauglin and Santana, that was right in the time period when he really went out there with L. Shankar and Z. Hussain. Speaking of Lavi Shankar (I think he just goes by "Shankar" now, probably result of confusion with Pt. Ravi S.) I bought his last CD and the man has gone back to his roots, non of the Zappa produced sound anymore, more Carnatic than anything.
Matt
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 19, 2003 01:44 p.m.


Stephen,
Glad you like it! How's the Shakti show?
kalyan
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 19, 2003 02:13 p.m.


If you think the bass is going too far check this out
http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om15500.html
AJ
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Nov 19, 2003 05:55 p.m.


well, I recently stumbled over this awesome woman with a killer cello, wow she really kicks butt! incredible cello she has........and she most definatlly knows how to play it!!! (her rendering of indian music is too much, wow)

http://www.saskiarao.com/

see ya round like a UFO!
AJ

Billy
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Dec 01, 2003 02:02 p.m.


Well, I just ordered a Mohan Veena. I should have it in about ten days I think.

Jeff, thanks for the advice on the video tapes. I got the Mohan Bhatt tape last week, which is pretty good. Even though it really isn't a teaching tape, I've learned quite a bit from it, and have even figured out most of the string tunings using my tuner next to the tv, though I already knew the three melody strings are tuned Sa-Pa-sa for bilaval with Sa=D.

Apparently the second string can be tuned to Ma for other tunings. I still haven't gotten the drone/chikari strings completely worked out, and I figure the sympathetics will be similar to a sitar, but based on a Sa=D, so they should be no problem.

Anyway, the tape also demonstrates some training excersises, so that will get me started. I also ordered the other tape you mentioned by Debashish Bhattacharya, hopefully I'll get it in the next couple of days.

I've been corresponding with Mark Humpries, who wrote some articles in Guitar Player and elsewhere about Hindustani Slide guitars, and got some good info from him. He thinks I should take Indian vocal lessons, which makes perfect sense and something I had already thought about doing. I just have to find someone tone deaf enough to stand my singing.

I think this is going to be way cool! Hopefully I'll get a good start and when my left hand is in better shape, and can get back to learning the sitar, with a bit of a head start.....


Namaste',
Billy Godfrey
Remco
Re:Hawaiian Guitar with tarbs? Dec 01, 2003 04:13 p.m.


There is a wonderful site about a new instrument called the bazantar, it reminds me a bit of the above mentioned instrument:
www.bazantar.com
an upright with tarabs. Be sure to visit the sample page and listen: great stuff. He studied with Imrat Khan.

Peace,

Remco

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