INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: Sitar Innovation

 

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Jan
Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 10:42 a.m.


Since there has been a lot of thalk about different materials and stuff for the Sitar...

Take a look at this one, i have posted the link before but it is really so cool. This sitar is on my most wanted list. I really dont know how it is to play and i have not read any review.
but i hav talked to Paul who is building these sweet things.
A Sirar for the 21. century. or ?
WHAT DO GUYS YOU THINK?
Slipping pegs and soaking is not beeing a problem here : )

http://www.greenonion.nl/insturments/fresh sitar/gro_instr_indian_fresh.htm

Another link is this one
http://www.raga.com/images/BanerjeeSitar.gif
the upper jawari of Nikhil Banerjee.

have fun!

Jan

Jan
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 10:50 a.m.


http://www.greenonion.nl/insturments/fresh sitar/gro_instr_indian_fresh.htm

something strange happend to the link, if thisone does not work then just go from here

http://www.greenonion.nl click Enter and then Musical Instruments and at last the light wood color sitar at 5 o�clock

Jan

pb
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 11:07 a.m.


Ya, I saw those too. I wonder how they sound? They look a bit plain and with strange materials. Actually, they look like pregnant guitars!

Personally, I like the fancy look of a fully decorated sitar with upper tomba. I just think they look cool.

Just like my old supervisor's criteria for a new server:
-looks good
-is impressive when being shown off
-never gives me problems

Actually, they have to sound really good too.

Pb

remco
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 11:37 a.m.


Hi,
Green Onion is located in my hometown Rotterdam. Last year my sitar was repaired at GO. The guy knows what he is doing. He had several great instrument on display; two sitars and a veena and also western electric guitars. He told me that the carbonfibre instruments were mostly ordered by, what he called "fusionmusicians". They are pricey though. I haven't had the opportunity to try out the instruments, since I was in a rush...

Peace,

Remco

Russ
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 11:43 a.m.


A year or so ago, Green Onion had a real audio sound sample of that composite sitar on their site. Don't know what happened to it. Going by that short clip, they sounded OK in the mid ranges, but sounded a little flat in the lower registers, and a little shrill or screechy in the upper. That might be due to the stainless steel frets. A lot of oil might help there.
Jeff
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 02:42 p.m.


Another link is this one
http://www.raga.com/images/BanerjeeSitar.gif
the upper jawari of Nikhil Banerjee.

Jan[/quote]


Jeffrey R King
pb
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 02:50 p.m.


Yes, I saw the block just below that upper bridge. What the heck does that do? I saw that on some hiren roy sitars on line somewhere too.
Pb
Jeff
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 02:51 p.m.



Jeff (Aug 29, 2003 02:42 p.m.):
Another link is this one
http://www.raga.com/images/BanerjeeSitar.gif
the upper jawari of Nikhil Banerjee.

Jan


[/quote]

I went to a little concert at an ashram about 6 or 7 months ago and I swear this is the same exact sitar the guy was playing. I made a comment about the strange looking nut but he couldnt really understand what I was saying to him. Is this "nut extention" a common thing or is it unique to this particular instrument?
I cant remember the fellows name but I believe it was said at his introduction that he was a chemical engineer of some sort. He put on a very good show and he was very talented.


Jeffrey R King
pb
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 02:57 p.m.


here is the site I saw:
http://www.india-instruments.de/pages/stringinst/sitar/hrful_e.html
Jeff
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 03:16 p.m.



pb (Aug 29, 2003 02:50 p.m.):
Yes, I saw the block just below that upper bridge. What the heck does that do? I saw that on some hiren roy sitars on line somewhere too.
Pb

Could it be a remedy for some serious intonation problems?


Jeffrey R King
K.K.
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 03:54 p.m.


Hi all: The added piece on N.B.s sitar is acually an extra Jawari to enhance the open strings.
If you look closely at Anoushka's Nodu Mullik sitar, on the cover of the "Live at Carnege Hall" album, you can see her sitar has a very small addition to the nut, under the lower strings only. According to Tony K. this was to enhance the bottom end of the bass strings.
I had Tony install one on my Mangla and it really didn't have any effect on the bottom end, so I suspect it was really put there to correct intonation on Anoushka's sitar. It actually degraded the intonation on my Mangla so I removed it.
Russ
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 04:04 p.m.


If any of you have the CD "N.B. Live at De Kosmos", look inside the liner notes. That exact same picture plus a paragraph or two explaining its origin is in there. That was something invented by N.B. and was unique to his style of playing. From what I hear, it changes meend capabilities, but makes keeping the instrument tuned a bear! Other people have copied N.B's extra jawari, but I don't think it did them any good. It was his "secret weapon".
Beenkarji
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 04:04 p.m.


Hi, that little nut is a thing that Hiren Roy developed to suit Panditjis (Nikhil Banerjee) style. It basically gives the laraj, kharaj, and pancham strings the sound of a tanpura with greater sustain, in a sense it is a jawari on both ends of the strings. It actually can really mess up innotation, but is some cases fix it, it just depends on the height of the action on the sitar.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
remco
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 04:07 p.m.


I understand it's an inovation originated by Balaram Pathak (father of Ashok Pathak).According to the booklet of Balaram Pathak's CD "Inde du Norde" (on Ocora):

"Pathakji, helped by the Master Sitarmaker Hiren Roy of Calcutta, has modified his sitar by adding an extra bridge near the sillet...that innovation, taken up by Nikhil Banerjee, gives more acuuracy while playing on the bass-strings used during Alapa. Pathakji also added frets dor the "Db" and "Ab" which we do not have in the standard setup." (end quote)

The booklet is written by Patrick Moutal (of the website mentioned on this forum)

BTW I can really advise the CD, great playing, very controlled....

Peace,

Remco

P.s. for those interested:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/luther7/PATH/home.html

a website dedicated to Balaram and Ashok Pathak

Russ
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 04:21 p.m.


OK, take your pick.

Remco, went to the site you linked, but couldn't get past the loadup page. Just stopped with a blank pink page right there.

remco
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 04:29 p.m.


the intro page takes you to:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/luther7/PATH/ashok.html

Peace,

Remco

Russ
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 06:43 p.m.


Must be doing something wrong. All I get is a blank page when I click on it. I use Netscape. Does that make any difference?
Billy
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 29, 2003 10:42 p.m.



Russ (Aug 29, 2003 06:43 p.m.):
Must be doing something wrong. All I get is a blank page when I click on it. I use Netscape. Does that make any difference?

Yeah, if you're using an older version of Netscape. I tried it on v6.2, and the page loaded ok, but not on v4.7.


Namaste',
Billy Enigmar Godfrey
DaveP
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 30, 2003 12:20 a.m.


My Hiren Roy has the extra jawari next to the nut.
In 1975 I asked Hiren Roy to make me a Nikhil Banerjee copy.
I don't notice any advantage in having this addition although I suspect it helps a little with the intonation.
I'd post a photo of it but that's a bit of a techno hassle for me.
Beenkarji
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 30, 2003 12:24 a.m.


Yeah, I finally got around to listening to that sound sample of a "Green Onion" sitar. I had talked before with Paul who makes them, and he seemed more interested in repair and building instruments rather than the actual playing, which is even more evident in the sound samples. I think if someone out there is going to make a worthwhile innovation, they have to be like Hiren Roy (who studied with Smt. Annapurna Devi), and actually know how to play the instrument, and very expressively. I am not "dissing" his sitars, but for the use in Hindustani music, they just wouldn't be suited because of their short sustain and weak bass range. Paul however is very knowledgable, and he knows what he is doing, but he just needs to learn more of the music, because his luthier skills are fine.
Beenkar Ted Ceplina
Jan
Re:Sitar Innovation Aug 30, 2003 10:05 a.m.



Beenkarji (Aug 30, 2003 12:24 a.m.):
I think if someone out there is going to make a worthwhile innovation, they have to be like Hiren Roy (who studied with Smt. Annapurna Devi), and actually know how to play the instrument, and very expressively.

I think you are wrong about that, but thats really not the topic so lets leave that one. The Green Onion Sitar is nothing BUT innovaiting. The use of new materials and mechanics arejust another step in the chain of evolution. The machine heads (not tarabs) is done by Rikhi Ram aswell, on the travel sitar i posted info about some months back. You dont need to have expert knowledge to set your ideas into life, for me this is pure inspiration and a merge of the "old" sitar with new tech. is happening allready. Just look at all the synthetic Jawaris out there. Some Sitar makers will hate it others will embrace it, if we stay alive we will be able to see where its going.
Still i take your point (in a way) its not going to sound like a pumpkin/wood combination, and its not comparable with a master crafted Sitar.
For my sake i would be happy to se some one maiking it to the market with a midisitar, i would not tuch one myself but someone would be able to express themselvs on it and what a beatifull thing that would be, for them at least.

Innovation isnt always good if one wants to preserve something in a "pure" state, but then again nothing stays the same.

Jan

Jan
And this makes it really loud! Aug 30, 2003 10:16 a.m.


http://www.schneiderguitars.com/Pages/sitar_repair.html

My teacher did this to one of his sitars last time he was in Norway, yes it got really really loud...

go nuts with your noname!

Jan

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