INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes

 

Author Message
Russ
Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Oct 19, 2001 09:59 a.m.


I have an old book called Techniques of Sitar by Bandyopapayana(?)which is a compilation of three even older texts. In a written sargam of a rag, the author uses two sitar bols he calls dar and rdir. Does anyone know what these strokes are?
babykurt
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Oct 28, 2001 08:46 p.m.


I'm learning, too, and I believe Da is a downstroke, Ra is an upstroke, and Dir is down-up. Another way of looking at these is that Da and Ra are quarter notes and Dir is 2 eighth-notes. Others please advise.
Russ
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Oct 29, 2001 01:17 p.m.



babykurt (Oct 28, 2001 08:46 p.m.):
I'm learning, too, and I believe Da is a downstroke, Ra is an upstroke, and Dir is down-up. Another way of looking at these is that Da and Ra are quarter notes and Dir is 2 eighth-notes. Others please advise.

Actually I think you may have Da and Ra stroke backwards, and I think they are both whole notes, with Dir as half-notes and DiRi as the quarter note fast-strike (from the Ashwin Batish intro videos from a few years ago). But I'm still at a loss on rdar.

Sanjaya
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 08, 2001 03:02 a.m.


Yes friends, DA is the upward stroke (bol) and RA is the downward stroke. Up is generally stronger on sitar due to the techniqwue of the mizrab. Diri is a quick alternating stroke- very quick. DRA would be a quick up down with the up almost being a grace note effect- stronger on the down stroke. Hope this clears it up.
Russ
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 08, 2001 05:12 p.m.


Thanks Sanjaya, that sounds like the way I play it. But I'm really thinking the rdar I mentioned may be just a typo error in translating from Hindi to English.

On your sitar video question on the board, there are others out there I've seen, but the old Batish ones are still the best, even if they are very elementary. I talked to him a couple of years ago, and he said he was planning to do more advanced videos soon, but I get the feeling he has backed off of that. Just too time consuming. So, I recommend keep looking for a real teacher (and so will I).

Lars
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 08, 2001 07:59 p.m.


Hard to believe there are not any teachers in NM Russ.......??Hee hee. I've had an idea of approaching a player that you admire and seeing about a video exchange in lieu of formal personal training. Tape the lesson, send it out with assignments, etc. and send yours back. It could work, don't you think?? I think I've seen 'rdar' several times in THE BOOK. It could be 'rda' with an added 'r' as a sort of grace note. Kind of like a triplet in swing style??
Jerry
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 27, 2001 04:07 a.m.


Hi all
Special hi to Lars - I just got the Mangla teak from Peter, Lars. It's just exquisite, isn't it?
I have a question for more experienced players than me.
In the section on Gat, my sitar book (by Clem Alford) talks about playing Vilambit Gat in a certain, very specific, bols. I don't have the book to hand, but it's something like (starting on the 12the beat of Tintal) Dere Da Dere Da Dere Da Da Ra Dere Da Da Ra Dere Da Da Ra.
That won't be it exactly - I'm writing from memory. But my question is - the book says memorise this pattern and use it for all the Vilambit Gat examples he gives for ragas from each of the 12 thats. When I listen to good players, they don't seem to follow an exat right-hand pattern in their gat playing. Or maybe they do, and I'm just not hearing it.
Can someone elaborate on this point for me?
Thanks
Jerry
Russ
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 27, 2001 10:21 a.m.



Jerry (Nov 27, 2001 04:07 a.m.):
Hi all
Special hi to Lars - I just got the Mangla teak from Peter, Lars. It's just exquisite, isn't it?
I have a question for more experienced players than me.
In the section on Gat, my sitar book (by Clem Alford) talks about playing Vilambit Gat in a certain, very specific, bols. I don't have the book to hand, but it's something like (starting on the 12the beat of Tintal) Dere Da Dere Da Dere Da Da Ra Dere Da Da Ra Dere Da Da Ra.
That won't be it exactly - I'm writing from memory. But my question is - the book says memorise this pattern and use it for all the Vilambit Gat examples he gives for ragas from each of the 12 thats. When I listen to good players, they don't seem to follow an exat right-hand pattern in their gat playing. Or maybe they do, and I'm just not hearing it.
Can someone elaborate on this point for me?
Thanks
Jerry

Hi Jerry;
Indeed, from all I've heard, the Mangla's sound like the sitar I've been looking for over the years, and I'm heading to his store in a couple of weeks to check them out. Both Lars and I have Clem's book; he uses teental for his gats because of its universal popularity due to it being a natural and
even-number type of rythmn. A number of really experienced players can weave other rythmms into the basic 4-4 teental, and you have to listen hard to pick it out. Clem's examples are very basic and you won't usually hear people like Ravi play it as-is. The tabla will usually play the rythmn and the teental will be apparent. If there's no tabla present, use your fingers and hands as you listen to drum out the rythmn. You'll find its still there.

Jerry
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 27, 2001 01:32 p.m.


Hi Russ
Thanks for the reply.
I guarantee you won't be disappointed by the Mangla. It's something special. And Peter's service is exceptional.
It wasn't so much the tal I was confused about. On a good day, and with a following wind, I can pick up the tintal beat, and even the sum after one of those extended flights of fancy they go off on!
I think I must be misunderstanding Clem. In his section on gat compositions, he gives exercise compositions in about a dozen basic ragas - simnple ones, as you say.
But he uses the same right hand bols for eac exercise - the dere da etc I mentioned above. And he takes time to explain that you should memorise this pattern, which suggested to me that it was a standard and much used right-hand pattern. But then he says that when playing vilambit gat you'll only use da strokes (to crank up the tension), but you should be 'thinking' the memorised dere da, etc, pattern.
I really don't follow what he means here. Should I play his dere da pattern or da only? And should I use this same standard pattern for each of his basic raga exercises, as the book seems to imply.
If so, this pattern must be VERY significant - perhaps the basis of all vilambit gat playing.
But I suspect I'm just extremely confused. As no doubt you are after reading this!
Cheers Russ
Jerry
Jerry
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 27, 2001 01:32 p.m.


Hi Russ
Thanks for the reply.
I guarantee you won't be disappointed by the Mangla. It's something special. And Peter's service is exceptional.
It wasn't so much the tal I was confused about. On a good day, and with a following wind, I can pick up the tintal beat, and even the sum after one of those extended flights of fancy they go off on!
I think I must be misunderstanding Clem. In his section on gat compositions, he gives exercise compositions in about a dozen basic ragas - simnple ones, as you say.
But he uses the same right hand bols for eac exercise - the dere da etc I mentioned above. And he takes time to explain that you should memorise this pattern, which suggested to me that it was a standard and much used right-hand pattern. But then he says that when playing vilambit gat you'll only use da strokes (to crank up the tension), but you should be 'thinking' the memorised dere da, etc, pattern.
I really don't follow what he means here. Should I play his dere da pattern or da only? And should I use this same standard pattern for each of his basic raga exercises, as the book seems to imply.
If so, this pattern must be VERY significant - perhaps the basis of all vilambit gat playing.
But I suspect I'm just extremely confused. As no doubt you are after reading this!
Cheers Russ
Jerry
Lars
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Nov 27, 2001 09:40 p.m.


Hello Jerry.......
Glad to see you're happy with your new Sitar!
Now anyone feel free to correct me here....but....Each gharana has a different way of doing bols, each having their own particular form from what I understand.
As far as the book by Clem Alford, I think he wants the reader to learn that particular way of strokes in order to keep track of where one is at in the gat or during bistar/vistar where you go off into a short improvisation during the 16 beat period. Make sense?? There are myriads of bols and ways of playing them.....not just one for vilambit gat. That would be too easy......but nice!! Oh well, hey Jerry...email me, I've got an ebook on sitar for you. lejacobsen@home.com
Russ
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Dec 04, 2001 03:51 p.m.


Lars-
Wanted to thank you a bunch for the super cool CDs. Made my day! But I think your email went belly-up. Everything I sent came back to me. If you're seeing this let me know.
Lars
Re:Questions on Sitar Bols/Strokes Dec 04, 2001 10:30 p.m.


Hi Russ,
Hmmm, I'm in Maine until Friday night and don't think my mailbox would be full yet?? Have a 10 MB limit. I'm using a hotmail one while away. Try me there at sunmountain2000@hotmail.com
Glad you liked the CD's......
[Previous] [Up] [Next]

SPONSORED LINKS