INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Sitar Forum: Question from an extreme beginner

 

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FullCircle
Question from an extreme beginner Aug 18, 2001 03:10 a.m.


this will probably seem like a sort of irritating question to the learned people of this board, but this question has been bugging me since I started and I hope that someone can clear this up for me. when i look at the ascending and descending scales in a raga, often times the notes dont occur in order and certain notes repeat themselves. For instance, in the raga Bilaskhani Todi the Avarohi is S r n d M g r S. why does the r come before the n? and why are there 2 r's? If someone would please clarify this for me I would be very happy. Thank you
BuddhistMonk
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Aug 18, 2001 05:00 p.m.


Hey Fullcircle itd be good if you went into the community forum and introduced yourself to everyone!
FullCircle
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Aug 19, 2001 02:23 a.m.


ok
Russ
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Aug 20, 2001 12:43 p.m.



FullCircle (Aug 18, 2001 03:10 a.m.):
this will probably seem like a sort of irritating question to the learned people of this board, but this question has been bugging me since I started and I hope that someone can clear this up for me. when i look at the ascending and descending scales in a raga, often times the notes dont occur in order and certain notes repeat themselves. For instance, in the raga Bilaskhani Todi the Avarohi is S r n d M g r S. why does the r come before the n? and why are there 2 r's? If someone would please clarify this for me I would be very happy. Thank you

Hey fullcircle;
Well, first of all, both the ascending and descending scales of any raga have to have their notes in order. And no way do you have two reshajas (re). Don't know where you got this from, but that avaroha is completely scrambled! I think you ran into a typo. Try it in order instead with just one re.
-Russ

FullCircle
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Aug 24, 2001 11:37 p.m.


Hey i asked the cat that was in charge of the web page that i got this from and he said that certain ragas have 'movements' that you have to follow and thats what the strange order of the notes in the raga are about. Is anyone else familiar with this concept and can provide some clarifiacation for me? I'd apprecieatte it
Russ
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Aug 29, 2001 06:05 p.m.


OK, I'll stop after this and let someone else give it a try. You and the web cat are right. Most ragas have more than one movement (alap, jor,jhalla, etc), but not all of them! Within those movements are things called gats (measures), within them are still shorter tans (bars). The traditional ragas have notes which come in order when ascending or decending the scale. But there may indeed have been ragas written recently which are not that way. Anyway, that's all I'll say on this! Hope it helps a bit.
David Courtney
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Aug 30, 2001 12:31 a.m.


Usualy when you see something so out of order like this it is a problem with notation. On paper you can put lines and dots and everything but on a computer keyboard it is hard for instance the begining section of Yaman kalyan is :
N R G M etc...
Obviusly what is ment is:
N. R G M etc.

But it is almost imposible to put a dot below the N to signify the lower saptak.

I think that if you check over the discussion of notation at:
https://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/lippi.html
Then you will appreciate the difficulty in handling thes things.

Good luck

Roh
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Sep 13, 2001 04:38 a.m.


Hi Full Circle,

Check out this site http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1364/todicat2.html
It has the scales of many ragas. It does not have of Bilaskhani Todi, but it has of Todi. It may be of help.

Roh
Re:Question from an extreme beginner Sep 10, 2001 05:09 a.m.


Hi Full Circle,

The combination of different swars make up the different ragas, therefore, the combinations will differ. As to your question about the same swars repeating, the possibility is that they must be the tivra or madhyam or in other words the sharp and flat notes of the same swar. I dont know the scale of Rag Bilaskhani Todi. But the re you are talking about here must be the tivra re below the tivra sa. So it is a higher note than tivra sa in the avaroh.
I will get in touch with my master and get this doubt relating to this particular raga clarified.

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