INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: Devnagri

 

Author Message
Jimmy
Devnagri May 07, 2004 09:22 a.m.


Hi,
I have a couple of questions. Firstly, what is the best translation of 'devnagri'? Anaddhaa you mentioned this in a reply to one of my posts. My guess is that it is a grounding in the traditions and history surrounding the intrument. However I find that resources are sparse. I am currently reading J Kippen's cultural analysis of the Lucknow tradition, and Gottlieb's 'Major traditions of N Indian Tabla Drumming'. Kippen's is a fairly personal and specific account of the Lucknow tradition.
Any suggestions on devnagri would be very helpful.
I also have another question, which is unrelated to the previous. It is to do with 'Dhere Dhere'. I see this phrase often in transcriptions and hear it in recitals. Kippen mentions some bols, (for example dhere dhere) which involve unspoken strokes. Therefore, can anyone tell me what it is comprised of exactly? I've also heard Zakir use this bol as part of a rela which forms the abstract image of a train, and also as a vocal acompaniment to tabla, I think by Chandrakantha Courtney. I am really confused by this, it seems as if there is an unspoken understanding of dhere dhere as I've never heard it explained.
Thanks, J
Aanaddha
Re:Devnagri May 07, 2004 11:37 a.m.


Jimmy,
Examples of devnagri can be found in the illustrations for the compositions given at:

https://chandrakantha.com/tablasite/articles/cad1.htm

It is one commonly used written form of Hindi. One big advantage of devnagri over the english alphabet for writing compositions is that the pronunciation of the bols is inherent in their character. Get David's "Fundamental's of Tabla" if only for that reason. I must confess that I am unable to read or write devnagri with any useful skill (though I did make an honest attempt to learn back when my brain was more receptive to learning new skills and remembering the onslought of new and useful information than it is today.)

The silent part of "dhere dhere" is the 2nd bayan stroke of the second "dhere". It is a difficult bol.
Books are used best as a reference or as a supplement to regular lessons with a guru . It is highly doubtful that anyone could actually learn to play "dheredhere" strictly from a book. Even with a teacher's guidance "dheredhere" takes years of practice to master and more years after that to master the bol at rela speeds.

Aanaddha


_____________________

rahul
Re:Devnagri May 07, 2004 01:53 p.m.



Jimmy (May 07, 2004 09:22 a.m.):
Hi,
I have a couple of questions. Firstly, what is the best translation of 'devnagri'? .....
.....
I also have another question, which is unrelated to the previous. It is to do with 'Dhere Dhere'. I see this phrase often in transcriptions and hear it in recitals. Thanks, J

Jimmy

"Devnagari" word is composed of 2 words: "Dev" + "Nagari" which get
translated as "God" + "Abode/City". It basically means "Abode of Gods", You
may be familiar with the Hindu religion where everything revolves around God.

Its just a script. Many Indian languages use this. For example: Hindi, Marathi,
Konkani( West Coastal region) and above all, the most ancient Sanskrut.

For Tabla, I think it would be really good to pick up basic script
elements of the Devanagari script used in the vocabulary. There are not
many such items to be picked up. If you can study it fully, it would be great
but everything probably is not required. The complex Tabla bols are
better expressed using Devanagari. It does not mean that using English, it
would be impossible!!

I have no answer to your 2nd Q of "DhereDhere".

Jimmy
Re:Devnagri May 08, 2004 07:11 p.m.


Hi,
Thanks for your informations and suggestions! I didn't realise devnagri was the name of the script. I have David's 'Learning the Tabla'. It does suggest coming to recognise the devnagri bols would be a great advantage. However, I don't think I am yet competant enough to exploit these subtle advantages of using the script, as my playing doesn't have the capacity to be subtle or dynamic; I only have basic knowledge. Maybe I'll try and learn at a slightly later stage, or try and get a hold of David's 'Fundamentals...'. Thanks for the explanation of 'dhire dhire' - it was a curiosity, I'm sure I'll learn it properly when I am ready, but not yet.
Also, I'd be interested in anyone's views on a player of Benares called Kishan Maharaj - I recently heard a recording of him in the early 70's and I was very impressed with the power and dynamics of his playing. I've never heard a performance of a Benares player before, will he be playing Purbi baj? This is just an assumption - I'm sure the sound of his strokes suggest so. His performance was very impressive and unique.
Thanks, J
TRKTDHA
Re:Devnagri May 09, 2004 03:35 a.m.


Although I am a hindi speaker, but never thought that learning Devnagri script is beneficial becasue Tabla palyaing can not be learned by reading a book written in Devanagri or in English. If you have a teacher, listen to him reciting the bols and that should be good enough. Bols could be written in English as a matter of fact I write my table bols in english as I can write faster without woirrying about whic 'Matra' that I should use. Using video recorder is good in capturing the pronounciation and the style by which strokes are executed and could be repeatedly played while practice.

About the Kishan Maharaj, he is most respected exponent of Banaras Baaz and has many well established students who are very good as well. Listening kishen Maharaj's solo recitel is like going into a ecststic level.

Regards,
TRKTDHA



Jimmy (May 08, 2004 07:11 p.m.):
Hi,
Thanks for your informations and suggestions! I didn't realise devnagri was the name of the script. I have David's 'Learning the Tabla'. It does suggest coming to recognise the devnagri bols would be a great advantage. However, I don't think I am yet competant enough to exploit these subtle advantages of using the script, as my playing doesn't have the capacity to be subtle or dynamic; I only have basic knowledge. Maybe I'll try and learn at a slightly later stage, or try and get a hold of David's 'Fundamentals...'. Thanks for the explanation of 'dhire dhire' - it was a curiosity, I'm sure I'll learn it properly when I am ready, but not yet.
Also, I'd be interested in anyone's views on a player of Benares called Kishan Maharaj - I recently heard a recording of him in the early 70's and I was very impressed with the power and dynamics of his playing. I've never heard a performance of a Benares player before, will he be playing Purbi baj? This is just an assumption - I'm sure the sound of his strokes suggest so. His performance was very impressive and unique.
Thanks, J
Zdenko
Re:Devnagri May 09, 2004 06:14 p.m.


Hi,
there is good and practical introduction to sanskrit on the web - if you find some time try it - you will enjoy it.
http://sanskrit.bhaarat.com/Doc_Project/learning_tutorial_wikner/index.html#contents

Zdenko

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