INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas

 

Author Message
Vivekanand
Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 02, 2004 02:03 a.m.


Dear Tabla Lovers,
I want to know the Peshkaars, kaidas and compositions played by Ustad Ahmadjan Tirakhwa.
Please assist
Aanaddha
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 02, 2004 07:28 a.m.



Vivekanand (Apr 02, 2004 02:03 a.m.):
Dear Tabla Lovers,
I want to know the Peshkaars, kaidas and compositions played by Ustad Ahmadjan Tirakhwa.
Please assist

Dear Vivekanand,

IMHO - Ust. Ahmedjan Thirakawa wasn't necessarily known as an innovator as much as that he 'revived' the classic form of the art of tabla. Most of his repertoire were classic Delhi, Farhukkabad, Lucknow compositions. Like his contemporary, vocalist Ust. Amir Khansaheb, the quality that puts him above all others and makes him the preeminent "artist's artist" is the incredible musicality of his performance and the uniqueness of his 'hand'.
These are the qualities and not the compositions that you ought to be seeking.

Aanaddha

-

Vivekanand
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 05, 2004 03:35 a.m.


Dear Aanaddha,
I know that Ustad was playing the formal compositions of Farrukabad and others. But What are those "Gharanedaar Compositions" He was playing. My seek is to gather those Gharanedaar Kaidas and peshkaars etc. I am not claiming that Ustad was playing only unique things. These same compositions canalso be played by you. But I can't because I don't know the script of this. This is what I want to tell. If you know that very common compositions of Delhi, Lukhnow,etc. please give me so that I too can try them.
With Wishes
Vivekanand
rod
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 05, 2004 08:44 a.m.


Viveka,

I completely agree with Aanaddha above. If you have been playing tabla for a while it is very likely that you know some of the compositions already. If you have been playing for less than ten years, I think you shouldn't even worry too much with complex compositions other than the few simple ones given to you by your master. After eight to ten years playing and after mastering most of the basics really well, then you can start seriously widening your repertoire. I have been playing for nearly six years and for the first two years I have only played one single dilli kaida i.e. dha te te dha te te dha dha tin na ki na etc and added other two kaidas two years later. Today I concentrate on one Banarasi theka (Banaras version of Peshkar) two kaidas and one rela and a couple of gats, a couple of tukras, two chakradars and two uthans and a couple of moharas and mukras. I do venture into other kaidas (funy enough, the very first beginners kaidas given to me by my master wich I had ignored in the first place)and some fixed compositions sometimes but since I consider myself still a beginner, I try to concentrate on the basics of good quality and clear sound production, precise timing etc.

It is said that Samta Prasad didn't know lots of compositions but the few he knew, he played so well that it sounded like a different one every time. That could be a great lesson for all of us. We must learn to open the creative gates of the heart. Then irrespective of which and how many compositions we know, it will always sound sweet.

Jake
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 05, 2004 11:25 a.m.


I agree with previous posts. The masters can make a simple composition sound unbelievable. Even before doubling the kaida or rela the compositions sounds great, because of the great sound, phrasing and dynamics. Listen and watch Nizamuddin's video for example. Listen to players like Thirakwa, Shaik Dawood and Lateef Ahmed Khan.
Aanaddha
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 05, 2004 01:12 p.m.



Vivekanand (Apr 05, 2004 03:35 a.m.):
Dear Aanaddha,
I know that Ustad was playing the formal compositions of Farrukabad and others. But What are those "Gharanedaar Compositions" He was playing. My seek is to gather those Gharanedaar Kaidas and peshkaars etc. I am not claiming that Ustad was playing only unique things. These same compositions canalso be played by you. But I can't because I don't know the script of this. This is what I want to tell. If you know that very common compositions of Delhi, Lukhnow,etc. please give me so that I too can try them.
With Wishes
Vivekanand

Dear V.,
I know I appear like a "know-it-all" sometimes, but I'm really just a student like you and Rod and Jake. The truth is I haven't ever sat down and analyzed Thirakawa's recordings (thankful that we have as many that we do) for the compositional content. Even if I did I'd be hesitant to write them out, not because they're a big secret, but because it takes time, there'd be a lot of mistakes and corrections, and there's really no standard form of notation in the english language that would do justice to such an endeavor. (Gottlieb spent ten years notating five short performances and they're full of mistakes). Besides that my gut feeling tells me it would be very much beside the point. Hell, I can't even read my own notations!
If it's purely research you're looking for then I'm afraid you'll have to sit down with the recordings and do it yourself. If you want to 'Be like T." then I would take Rod's suggestion and take one kaida theme or one peshkar variation at a time and get to know it like your first name and middle initial or your face in the mirror - backwards in your sleep. That's what Thirakawa did - That's the reason his playing is so unbelievably natural. That's what Zakir does, and Anindo, and Swapan-da, etc... - That's the ONLY way to do it .
Ustad Ahmejan Thirakawa probably forgot more compositions than all of us put together will ever learn - but he KNEW them. After that the variations are mere child's play- literally.
Seriously, the secret - as difficult as this is to accept - is not in the compositions, or in the talent, or in the tablas, or even in the teacher - it's in your practice, pure and simple - nothing could be more simpler.
Wishing I could be more help,
Sincerely,
Aanaddha

-

matihar
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 06, 2004 10:51 a.m.


Dear Aanaddha, Jake and Rod,
It is very nice to see that some people have the maturity, patience and devotion which is essential in approaching the high art of Indian Classical Music. Best wishes to you all,
Matihar
Randeep
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 07, 2004 09:21 p.m.


I don't think that this approach is appropriate. You can't just go and collect something that Ustadji spent years and years of complete dedication accumulating himself. I think that if you want to learn these compositions, you need to study in that Gharana for some number of years.

Compositions at that level can't be done any justice anyways by transcribing them and passing them along - you need an Ustad to teach the subtlety that makes every bit unique.

TRKTDHA
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 11, 2004 11:58 p.m.


There is something, maestro has played with passion on many occasion. I have been fortunate to hear this kayda during my childhood in many household mehfil in Lucknow graced by the legend. I have heard Ustaad Zakir mentioning that this was created by Ustad Thirakwa

Dha trk Dhinaghena Dhagetrk Dhinaghena
Dhagena Dhatrk Dhina Dhatidhage Dhinaghena

Khali....



Randeep (Apr 07, 2004 09:21 p.m.):
I don't think that this approach is appropriate. You can't just go and collect something that Ustadji spent years and years of complete dedication accumulating himself. I think that if you want to learn these compositions, you need to study in that Gharana for some number of years.

Compositions at that level can't be done any justice anyways by transcribing them and passing them along - you need an Ustad to teach the subtlety that makes every bit unique.


Aanaddha
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 12, 2004 07:09 a.m.


[quote]TRKTDHA (Apr 11, 2004 11:58 p.m.):
There is something, maestro has played with passion on many occasion. I have been fortunate to hear this kayda during my childhood in many household mehfil in Lucknow graced by the legend. I have heard Ustaad Zakir mentioning that this was created by Ustad Thirakwa

Dha trk Dhinaghena Dhagetrk Dhinaghena
Dhagena Dhatrk Dhina Dhatidhage Dhinaghena

Khali....

Thanks TRKTDHA,
Your readers are assuming this is a kaida in teental with a slight pause between the 'Dha" and the subsequent "trk" in both instances and that the 'trk' is a flam (treke), not 'trkt' (terekete) ?

Aanaddha

_

Vivkeanand
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 12, 2004 09:08 a.m.


Dears,
This is what actually called mis-interpretation.
As one of the dear told about the practice, I am practicing for more than ten years. My point of view is only to search for the compositions. But I don't know why this is being mistaken? There is nothing UNTOLD and UNSCRIPTABLE in Indian Classical Music. Everywhen I ask co many people reply with same answers, which in turn not an answer. If you know those compositions you can state them or not since it is being your wish. The thing is Ustad played complex compositions, being complex both in its scripture and laykari. what are those? Resolving these from a recording is possible but some thing may be misheard! This can effect in its entire theme. A composition can be resolved only when you know the theme. A simple form of Dha Ti Ta can be noted with ease. But not a piece like "Kdadhettagennatagetitikatrakadhikita" the thing is the piece will be played very fast and the letters in the piece are more. So letter density being more it hears like a sound of some artistic value. There is no tablaji in the world who learnt the art of tabla without padhant (Script) of compositions. If the case is like this then what is the problem in discussing the script of compositions of Ustadji? for example I will give you the script of a kaida of Ustad :
Na Ga Dhin ---Dhage Tirakita Dhage Traka Dhina Gi Na, Dhage Tita Dhage Traka Dhinnagina, Dhage Tirakita Dhage Dhingadhinagena, Dhage tirakita Dhage tita Dhage Traka Dhinnagena.
I know all qualities of a tabla legend. I tell one thing, the tayyari, Style and voice may be distinct, but the raag and its mood will remain same for all singers. Likewise artistic abilities may be different for all artists but the composition being same. So I am telling again that I ask only for compositions. If you have and you have a wish to give it then I will be greatful. Otherwise? There is no meaning in creating an online database of compositions where so many compositions are scripted.

Vivekanand

MEWAN
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 12, 2004 12:56 p.m.


Hy every body

Have a look
at http://www.tabla-schule.ch/sounds.htm

Kenavo , e bre�zhoneg evel just !

MEWAN
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 12, 2004 01:07 p.m.


Or here

http://www.musicindiaonline.com

instrumental - hindoustani - Tirakhwa

TRKTDHA
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 12, 2004 09:32 p.m.


Thanks Aanaddha,

Its a teentaal Kayada with no gap in between bols, and as you mentioned, its not "terekete" but "treke or trk". Its hard to write tabla bols in English where the script could vary depending on the language one speaks.(I am at home with hindi and its seems you are very familiar with Bengali !!)

Infact Ballu Khan Saheb used to play same kayda in Ektaal by manipulating the gaps inbetween.

Regards,
TRKTDHA
Your readers are assuming this is a kaida in teental with a slight pause between the 'Dha" and the subsequent "trk" in both instances and that the 'trk' is a flam (treke), not 'trkt' (terekete) ?

Aanaddha

_[/quote]

aanaddha
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 12, 2004 10:19 p.m.


Vivkeanand brings up many interesting and important issues that I would like to discuss. I will try to prepare a response in the next few days. In the meantime I would address your attention to two relevant urls:

http://www.filmsdivision.org/home.htm

Title: Ahmed Jaan Tirakwa
Director Name: G. P. Asthana
Duration: 14 mins Year: 1971

and:

http://music.calarts.edu/~bansuri/pages/thirakwa.html

Aanaddha

_

rod
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 14, 2004 10:56 a.m.


Man!!!!! That first clip by Ustad Amir Hussain hit me like a tornado. Like a flash of pure white light exploding in the eye centre. ...what was it ? the light of a thousand suns?



MEWAN (Apr 12, 2004 12:56 p.m.):
Hy every body

Have a look
at http://www.tabla-schule.ch/sounds.htm

Kenavo , e bre�zhoneg evel just !


MEWAN
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 14, 2004 01:40 p.m.


He he , I like it too ! : )
It is quite like a rela ;

dha tirekitetaketirekite
dhatige tingeta dhatige ta dhatidha getinke tata
khaly

with baya who does always the same thing ; do� do� do� do� do� do�

Bye

MEWAN
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 14, 2004 02:48 p.m.


WOW There is a problem
modification ;

dha tirekitetaketirekite
dhatige tingeta dhatigeta dhatidha tige tinketa
ta tirekitetaketirekite
tatige tinketa dhatigeta dhatidha tige tingeta

variation etc ...
Now its ok bye
kenavo la distro e bre�zhoneg evel just !

rod
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 15, 2004 09:05 a.m.



MEWAN (Apr 14, 2004 02:48 p.m.):
WOW There is a problem
modification ;

dha tirekitetaketirekite
dhatige tingeta dhatigeta dhatidha tige tinketa
ta tirekitetaketirekite
tatige tinketa dhatigeta dhatidha tige tingeta

variation etc ...
Now its ok bye
kenavo la distro e bre�zhoneg evel just !


Is this in ari or barabar layakari? The lehara is in sixteen beats (or is a fifteen beats?) but here the transcription is a bit confusing. You have groups of three(tatige) bols (ari), groups of four(dhatigeta) and two(tige)(barabar).
Can you type the composition again but devide the matras and its bols in a more clear way?

The other thing, where can I get this record if possible?

cheers

Aanaddha
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 15, 2004 10:45 a.m.



rod (Apr 15, 2004 09:05 a.m.):
[quote]MEWAN (Apr 14, 2004 02:48 p.m.):
The other thing, where can I get this record if possible?

cheers


I believe this clip (heavily compressed) is from the 1969(?)LP recording of Ahmedjan Thirakwa (side A) & Amir Hussain Khan (side B) titled
"Rhythms of India - Tabla Recital" [gramophone co. of india, STC 04b 7140, re-released as a cassete in1983]
I've seen the original LP on eBay occasionally and as recently as three weeks ago.

Aanaddha

____________

MEWAN
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 15, 2004 04:29 p.m.


No it is 12 beats

dha(s)tire kitetake tirekite
dhati getin geta dhati geta dhati dhati getin keta
ta(s)tire kitetake tirekite
tati ketin keta dhati geta dhati dhati getin ge ta

try it it is not so difficult , listen it carefully
In don't know about barabar , i m not a musicologist

Bye

rod
Re:Searching Tirakhwa's Kaidas Apr 16, 2004 08:58 a.m.


Thanks Mewan,

I guess I wanted it so much to be a 16 beat lahara that I heard a sixteen beet instead. Typical of me!
The chalan looks good now and it is in Barabar as I thought.
This is waht David says about layakari.
https://chandrakantha.com/tablasite/articles/cad1.htm
"The relationship between the performed and the abstract is referred to as layakari. Common layakari are single-time, double-time, triple-time, etc. One also finds interesting layakari such as three-beats-over-two, seven-beats-over-four, etc."

In this case is in double time (barabar) i.e. multiple of two for the matra. Single time is also barabar layakari I think. Ari would be in triple time or multiples of three. I believe these to be the most comom layakari in use.


MEWAN (Apr 15, 2004 04:29 p.m.):
No it is 12 beats

dha(s)tire kitetake tirekite
dhati getin geta dhati geta dhati dhati getin keta
ta(s)tire kitetake tirekite
tati ketin keta dhati geta dhati dhati getin ge ta

try it it is not so difficult , listen it carefully
In don't know about barabar , i m not a musicologist

Bye


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