INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST??

 

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shawn122
Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 23, 2003 11:25 p.m.


Hello to all tabla and ICM music lovers. I had a heated discussion.debate with another tabla player on who is the better accompaniest: Zakir Bhai or Swapan Ji?
I held that Zakir Ji is much better at accompanying then Swapan Ji (mind you... better is a RELATIVE term..... they are both extraordinary...)
I believe has a better knack at getting into the musicians mind..... especially when he is with Hariprasad Chaurasia or Shivkumar Sharma.
Swapan is also great. But i think Zakir Bhai has a slighter edge on him.
This other tabla player thought I was dead wrong.

Any opinions??

Cheers

aanaddha
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 07:33 a.m.


This is a petty, immature, and irrelevant question posited soley to elicit attention. Do not respond to it.

Aanaddha

shawn122
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 10:42 a.m.


Mr. Annadha......I do agree with you. I told that the person as well.
But he adamant in his position.

Like I said... the term better is relative.
I just wanted people's opinions. As for the attention...... I don't come on to message boards looking for attention.1
Besides.... there has been postings on who people would rank as the best Sitarists living today. When You reach the level of these artistes, its no so much about who is better and i realize that. I just wanted to see what people thought.
So relax

Cheers

Bhavesh Patel
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 01:54 p.m.


I think it just depends on whose day it is? I mean I heard sapanda playing and then I thought no body can ever be good accompniest and some time I heard Zakir playing and thought the same.

Also it depends on what kind kind of mood you are in. Last thing, I think zakir play's more(time occupied by a tabla player in accompning) then sapanda usually takes. That might a factor.

But I agree both are great in their own world.

Rohit
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 04:25 p.m.


i think they are better or worse depending on many things. Many times i have seen Zakir play far better than Swapanda, but then there have also been countless times where Swapanda has been a 'god of taal'. I think it all matters upon who is playing and the time/mood/day. For example, i have heard both Swapanda as well as Zakirbhai accompany both Hariprasad as well as Ali Akbar Khansaheb. One is definatly better with Hariprasad and one is better with Khansaheb, mostly because they understand the type of music being played in the preformer's head and play to that. also, a huge amount of diffference is made by the audience, our music is Darbari sangeet, or courtly music so we have always relyed upon the listener to provide inspiration. To sum it all up, none is the better accompaniest.

Just adding my 2 cents,
Rohit

ChrisG
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 03:55 p.m.



shawn122 (Nov 23, 2003 11:25 p.m.):
Hello to all tabla and ICM music lovers. I had a heated discussion.debate with another tabla player on who is the better accompaniest: Zakir Bhai or Swapan Ji?

I think that the question is a bit silly. However, I have asked it also, so I cannot blame one for asking this question too. The last time I was with my teacher (Pt Samir Chatterjee), I asked him "Who is the world's greatest Tabla player." He casually pointed at me. I laughed and assumed he was joking, then I asked him "Who is YOUR favorite tabla player." He smiled and pointed at me again.

I realized the teaching here: When it comes to the beauty in music, it does not come from me you or any specific musician, it is divine beauty flowing from the heart. And what comes from the heart is not the province of one individual person, it is the divine source. If you could travel into your own heart, you would find the source from which all inspired music, poetry, philosophy, religious experience and great sex comes from! When it gets to the level of the heart, beauty from your heart is no better or worse than beauty from my heart, the heart of Zakir Hussain, or anyone else. Got the idea?

My own viewpoints on music have shifted radically in the past few years. I used to be terribly impressed with technical brilliance in music. In fact, the music which turned my entire life around was the album Shakti (Zakir Hussain, John McLaughlin, etc.) But I've come to a place where speed and technical ability is not really what moves me, but it is the love and devotion that a musician puts into what they are doing. All great musicians have that love and devotion, otherwise they wouldn't be great musicians.

For a great example of great music which has not much speed and technical dazzle, listen to the music of Hawaiian slack key guitarrist Keola Beamer. Keola could never keep up with John McLaughlin, but his music is the most moving and beautiful guitar music I've ever heard.

All the best,
Chris

aanaddha
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 04:59 p.m.


These two esteemed artists have a higher appreciation for each other than any of us could ever have for either one. They are like brothers. To voice such a question is an insult to both.
Grow up.
Aanaddha
djwow
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 07:30 p.m.


Chris, the story of your teacher is beautiful. It illustrates the beauty of tabla (and other arts); it is not merely a musical device. The lesson is applicable to all areas of our lives.

Hopefully, tabla is first and foremost the result of each of our's passion.

And although I understand some of our friends' aversion to discussions over who is 'best', it is clear that Shawn's posting was indeed born out of this passion. We discuss politics, film, sports, etc. over coffee or at our friends homes...if we can't discuss tabla there's something wrong!

That's the difference. Yes, to make an egotistical contest of superiority is silly...but let's not confuse this with EMBRACING the differences between performers, arts, peoples, cultures, etc. which leads to peace.

As for who the best tabla player is, like Chris said, it must be ME...after all, I spend most of my time listening to myself (no matter how pathetic)! : )

Cheers!

shawn122
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 10:25 p.m.



aanaddha (Nov 24, 2003 04:59 p.m.):
These two esteemed artists have a higher appreciation for each other than any of us could ever have for either one. They are like brothers. To voice such a question is an insult to both.
Grow up.
Aanaddha

Dear Mr. Annnaddha,
Just to clarify something. I had this discussion with a person who has attended Swapan Ji's workshops. He always contends that Swapan Ji is more versatile, technically sound.... and he also said it is a recognized fact that Swapan Ji is a better tabla player.

I agree with your viepoint whole heartedly. The exact things you said are the exact things I told theis person. I did not mean to offend the honour of Swapan Ji or Zakir Ji.

Thanks for all the posts. I wholly agree that the music that stems from the heart is the best.
Sound is God, Music is worship

shawn122
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 24, 2003 10:34 p.m.


Hello. I am the one who started this discussion and I just want to adda few things

1. I do not believe that one is better than the other
2. I did not start this discussion because of some egotistical pride. I love Indian Classical Music. Not onl;y have I been playing tabla for 8 years, but I recently have started Vcal lessons (hindustani). I have a passion for Indian music.
3. I started this discussion because i was offended when this person I first had this debate with told me that it is a "recognized fact that Swapan is a better tabla player than Zakir ji". That is an exact quotation.
4. Mr.Annadha has taken offense to this discussion. That was not my intention. I have a great respect and adoration for EVERYONE that plays tabla. Whether it be Zakir or Swapan or my young nephews.

Thanks to everyone who posted a reply. I just wanted to engage in a discussion and here peoples opinions since I was upset over what I was told.

Thanks again

Mohan
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 25, 2003 10:58 a.m.


Pop Idol that�s the answer.

I think we should have Tabla Idol then the audience can vote for the best player each week until we have the nations favourite.

What you think, Good idea or what???

ChrisG
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 25, 2003 01:23 p.m.


Our idol: Lord Ganesh, god of Drumming!
aanaddha
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 25, 2003 03:20 p.m.


I take no personal offence in this type of discussion, however, the danger is that eventually someone will. Music is not a sport and to remark publicly upon the comparative shortcomings of any artist is to run the certain risk of insulting someone's teacher or Guru - this is a serious matter. If you continue to express these types views and to engage in these types of discussions then you will have no friends and even your own teacher or Guru will avoid you.
I would not suggest that you cease from entertaining your own though-provoking opinions, but, as with most opinions and with all opinions based exclusively on consensus of opinions ( as if that makes the idea more legitimate?) it might be better for everyone to keep the results to yourself.
Obviously your "friend" has no opinions of his own or is incapable of formulating judgements based on anything other than "what everybody says".
Take comfort in your ability to think for yourself and beware of people who will drag you down to their level with petty, unimaginative, and spiteful tricks while they pretend to be your friend - they will be the first to voice the same negative judgements to someone else regarding you.

Aanaddha


shawn122 (Nov 24, 2003 10:34 p.m.):
Hello. I am the one who started this discussion and I just want to adda few things

1. I do not believe that one is better than the other
2. I did not start this discussion because of some egotistical pride. I love Indian Classical Music. Not onl;y have I been playing tabla for 8 years, but I recently have started Vcal lessons (hindustani). I have a passion for Indian music.
3. I started this discussion because i was offended when this person I first had this debate with told me that it is a "recognized fact that Swapan is a better tabla player than Zakir ji". That is an exact quotation.
4. Mr.Annadha has taken offense to this discussion. That was not my intention. I have a great respect and adoration for EVERYONE that plays tabla. Whether it be Zakir or Swapan or my young nephews.

Thanks to everyone who posted a reply. I just wanted to engage in a discussion and here peoples opinions since I was upset over what I was told.

Thanks again


jilly
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 25, 2003 04:25 p.m.


Im sorry shawn, i think i Agree with Mr Anaadha. They are great in their own right.
tabla_sher
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 25, 2003 10:25 p.m.


Not that there's much more to add, I see this as asking the following:

Who was a "better" physicist - Newton or Einstein?
Who was a "better" mathematician - Fermat or Descartes?
etc... etc...

shawn122
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 26, 2003 12:05 a.m.


[quote]aanaddha (Nov 25, 2003 03:20 p.m.):
I take no personal offence in this type of discussion, however, the danger is that eventually someone will. Music is not a sport and to remark publicly upon the comparative shortcomings of any artist is to run the certain risk of insulting someone's teacher or Guru - this is a serious matter. If you continue to express these types views and to engage in these types of discussions then you will have no friends and even your own teacher or Guru will avoid you.
I would not suggest that you cease from entertaining your own though-provoking opinions, but, as with most opinions and with all opinions based exclusively on consensus of opinions ( as if that makes the idea more legitimate?) it might be better for everyone to keep the results to yourself.
Obviously your "friend" has no opinions of his own or is incapable of formulating judgements based on anything other than "what everybody says".
Take comfort in your ability to think for yourself and beware of people who will drag you down to their level with petty, unimaginative, and spiteful tricks while they pretend to be your friend - they will be the first to voice the same negative judgements to someone else regarding you.

Very well said, Annandha. Truth be told he has already spoken ill of me.
Ah well..... thats life.

Thanks to everyone for psoting their opinions.
As for the Einsten /Newton question.......having taken a philosophy of physics course.... the debate is still ongoing. half my class believe Newton was better since he expalined how things work in THIS world, the other half believe Einstein's theory hold more weight because he explained how things worked in the universe as a whole......

so as Annadha says..... form you own opinion.

Now I think its time for another topic.

Shawn
Re:Zakir Hussain or Swapan Chaudhri.....who is the better ACCOMPANIEST?? Nov 26, 2003 12:26 a.m.


Good idea.

Let's end it here before it turns ugly


Shawn
http://www.percussionist.net
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