INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed?

 

Author Message
ganesha
How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Jan 14, 2003 02:06 p.m.


Hello, I am learning the basics rhythms on tabla, but recently I found a problem; when I play Tun, I strike with the index finger and raise the rest of fingers in order to not to mute the dayan, but when I play Na after this, I have to: first, place the ring finger against the syahi and then strike the Chat with the index finger.
This two-bol played fast sounds like if there were three bols (Tun, Te and Na). I know this mustn�t sound like this, but how?
I hope to have explained it well.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Bhavesh
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Jan 14, 2003 05:01 p.m.


when you say you have to place your ring finger back on shyahi before you play "na". That is the problem.

Eliminate the middle sound "Te" (Tun, Te and Na) by hitting Na and placing your ring fingar on shyahi simulteneously.

Best way to practice this is playing follwoing boal.
(It is a Dadra laggi)

Dhage, Dhina, Gena | Take, Dhina, Gena

I think there is no ease way out for your problem. Practice will get you the speed you need.

alien
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Jan 15, 2003 05:56 a.m.


Sorry for my poor English. So my method is not to raise finger 3 completely at 'tu', but to leave the back of second joint (almost the middle of the finger in length) on the edge of the kinar at an angle of 5-10o compared to the puri. Like that, while returning to 'na', finger 3 doesn't slap the skin, the fingertip rather caresses it smoothly and slides to it's place, without the extra noise. Complete solution: play tu-na and dhi-na 1000000 times. Sincerely
Shawn
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Jan 15, 2003 09:37 a.m.


Hi,

There are a few approaches to Tun-Na, and everyone has their personal preferences. Here are 3 different methods:

1) As was mentioned in an earlier response, bring down your ring finger at the SAME time you do your Na.

2) Keep your hand as close to the drum as possible when producing your Tun. When you place your ring finger back on the drum, do it as a sliding motion, rather than just putting in straight down. This will eliminate the contact sound of putting the finger back down.

3) When you play Tun, don't remove your ring finger from the drum - just move it to the edge of the drum (variously known as chat, kinar, chanti). Then, when you play Na, just slide the finger back into place.

Of course, any of these 3 approaches requires lots of repetitive practice. Make sure you really watch your hands/fingers as you practice.


Shawn
http://www.percussionist.net
Warren
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Jan 15, 2003 04:21 p.m.


Shawn's #3 explanation is the real important one because it addresses a very important point .
When you play Na, then Tin (or TA) on the sur, then Tun on the gab, your hand keeps the same shape, the ring finger is not stationary, it moves.
I see this mistake a lot, check your right hand playing dha dhin dhin dha. Does your ring finger stay fixed in the same place or does it move, the whole hand should keep the exact same shape and move.

When a tabla player is playing fast dha dhin dhin dha, his right hand is sort of playing na na na na , the only difference is his whole hand moves over slightly for tin.
Same with Tun.

So to fix this play Na then without changing the shape of your hand or fingers move you hand slightly, very lightly sliding your ring finger until your 1st finger is above the sur then play Tin, then move your hand again so the first finger is over the gab, ring finger is on the kinar and play Tun. The ring finger slides and the hand never loses it's shape (but don't be stiff)Hope that makes sense.



Shawn (Jan 15, 2003 09:37 a.m.):
Hi,

There are a few approaches to Tun-Na, and everyone has their personal preferences. Here are 3 different methods:

1) As was mentioned in an earlier response, bring down your ring finger at the SAME time you do your Na.

2) Keep your hand as close to the drum as possible when producing your Tun. When you place your ring finger back on the drum, do it as a sliding motion, rather than just putting in straight down. This will eliminate the contact sound of putting the finger back down.

3) When you play Tun, don't remove your ring finger from the drum - just move it to the edge of the drum (variously known as chat, kinar, chanti). Then, when you play Na, just slide the finger back into place.

Of course, any of these 3 approaches requires lots of repetitive practice. Make sure you really watch your hands/fingers as you practice.


Steve
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Jan 16, 2003 09:16 a.m.


As you said, we all have our preferences. Mine is a little simple. I simply feel that if a noise is being made when your ring finger touches the siyahi, these means your fingers aren't relaxed enough. Your ring and little fingers should act like a spring. So that when your hand comes down they should gently touch the siyahi, then your hand comes down with the index fingers to make na. Does this make sense? I hope so.
Devi
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Feb 16, 2003 03:44 p.m.


Hmm, doesn't that refute the notion of "home position"? Also, if when I play Na, my ring finger is just on the edge of the syahi at about 4-5 o'clock, where does it move to when I scootch over to play Tin? Does it move right off the syahi? That would have the advantage of yielding the more resonant sound that Tin is supposed to have and I have not discovered, but you are the first person (of ALL TWO of my sources, Batish and Courtney) to mention this. Is this really how everyone is playing this?
NOTE: Please don't think I am challenging you; it's just that since I have no teacher, I'm trying to compensate by doing everything EXACTLY as the book says, afraid I'll learn the wrong technique (I know I'm bound to anyway).


Warren (Jan 15, 2003 04:21 p.m.):
Shawn's #3 explanation is the real important one because it addresses a very important point .
When you play Na, then Tin (or TA) on the sur, then Tun on the gab, your hand keeps the same shape, the ring finger is not stationary, it moves.
I see this mistake a lot, check your right hand playing dha dhin dhin dha. Does your ring finger stay fixed in the same place or does it move, the whole hand should keep the exact same shape and move.

When a tabla player is playing fast dha dhin dhin dha, his right hand is sort of playing na na na na , the only difference is his whole hand moves over slightly for tin.
Same with Tun.

So to fix this play Na then without changing the shape of your hand or fingers move you hand slightly, very lightly sliding your ring finger until your 1st finger is above the sur then play Tin, then move your hand again so the first finger is over the gab, ring finger is on the kinar and play Tun. The ring finger slides and the hand never loses it's shape (but don't be stiff)Hope that makes sense.



Shawn (Jan 15, 2003 09:37 a.m.):
Hi,

There are a few approaches to Tun-Na, and everyone has their personal preferences. Here are 3 different methods:

1) As was mentioned in an earlier response, bring down your ring finger at the SAME time you do your Na.

2) Keep your hand as close to the drum as possible when producing your Tun. When you place your ring finger back on the drum, do it as a sliding motion, rather than just putting in straight down. This will eliminate the contact sound of putting the finger back down.

3) When you play Tun, don't remove your ring finger from the drum - just move it to the edge of the drum (variously known as chat, kinar, chanti). Then, when you play Na, just slide the finger back into place.

Of course, any of these 3 approaches requires lots of repetitive practice. Make sure you really watch your hands/fingers as you practice.



Warren
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Feb 17, 2003 07:06 p.m.


Yes the ring finger moves over slightly just as you are saying, Check your photos of the masters hands when playing na, imitat that for na , then for tin and tun your whole hand moves over slightly for each while keeping the same shape.
Zakir and Anindo have explained this quite a bit. It also makes more sense when you see the curl in there hands. What's very intersting is to see there fingers close up they have actually changed shape and they have a flat surface about a quater inch below the nail on the lower part of the tip of there finger, this is basically the only place there hand touches, very similar to the place where a pianist vingers touch the keys.



Devi (Feb 16, 2003 03:44 p.m.):
Hmm, doesn't that refute the notion of "home position"? Also, if when I play Na, my ring finger is just on the edge of the syahi at about 4-5 o'clock, where does it move to when I scootch over to play Tin? Does it move right off the syahi? That would have the advantage of yielding the more resonant sound that Tin is supposed to have and I have not discovered, but you are the first person (of ALL TWO of my sources, Batish and Courtney) to mention this. Is this really how everyone is playing this?
NOTE: Please don't think I am challenging you; it's just that since I have no teacher, I'm trying to compensate by doing everything EXACTLY as the book says, afraid I'll learn the wrong technique (I know I'm bound to anyway).


Warren (Jan 15, 2003 04:21 p.m.):
Shawn's #3 explanation is the real important one because it addresses a very important point .
When you play Na, then Tin (or TA) on the sur, then Tun on the gab, your hand keeps the same shape, the ring finger is not stationary, it moves.
I see this mistake a lot, check your right hand playing dha dhin dhin dha. Does your ring finger stay fixed in the same place or does it move, the whole hand should keep the exact same shape and move.

When a tabla player is playing fast dha dhin dhin dha, his right hand is sort of playing na na na na , the only difference is his whole hand moves over slightly for tin.
Same with Tun.

So to fix this play Na then without changing the shape of your hand or fingers move you hand slightly, very lightly sliding your ring finger until your 1st finger is above the sur then play Tin, then move your hand again so the first finger is over the gab, ring finger is on the kinar and play Tun. The ring finger slides and the hand never loses it's shape (but don't be stiff)Hope that makes sense.



Shawn (Jan 15, 2003 09:37 a.m.):
Hi,

There are a few approaches to Tun-Na, and everyone has their personal preferences. Here are 3 different methods:

1) As was mentioned in an earlier response, bring down your ring finger at the SAME time you do your Na.

2) Keep your hand as close to the drum as possible when producing your Tun. When you place your ring finger back on the drum, do it as a sliding motion, rather than just putting in straight down. This will eliminate the contact sound of putting the finger back down.

3) When you play Tun, don't remove your ring finger from the drum - just move it to the edge of the drum (variously known as chat, kinar, chanti). Then, when you play Na, just slide the finger back into place.

Of course, any of these 3 approaches requires lots of repetitive practice. Make sure you really watch your hands/fingers as you practice.




Warren
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Feb 18, 2003 12:08 a.m.


Please go to Prafulla Bhai's website
http://www.tabla-player.com/
and download the Zakir betum chakradar or check any of the other videos of his to see how your hands should move for ta tin tun . His form is absolutely correct and his playing is actually really great.
Devi42
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Feb 18, 2003 04:09 p.m.


Wuuuuuaaaawww.... my hands are NEVER going to move that fast! I really couldn't see precisely how that guy was doing na to tin transitions... it was all a blur! Guess I'll just take your word for it. But just to confirm your message... it's ok for my 4th (ring) finger NOT to be on the syahi when I move over for tin... right?
Devi
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Feb 19, 2003 09:59 a.m.


I practiced some last night with this new way of playing Na and Tin; it really changes things! It encourages a much looser and lighter hand; it keeps me from being "planted" in home position... I guess that's a good thing, right?
Warren
Re:How do you play Na and then Too (tun) at high speed? Feb 25, 2003 07:30 p.m.


That's it! Devi the hand is free, the problem is this is sometimes not stressed since teachers want beginners to keep hand positioning and not be to wild but in reality it is as I said. If you have downloaded Prafulla vids try pausing and checking frame by frame. The ring finger can move just off the shyhai slightly for tin.


Devi (Feb 19, 2003 10:02 a.m.):
I practiced some last night with this new way of playing Na and Tin; it really changes things! It encourages a much looser and lighter hand; it keeps me from being "planted" in home position... I guess that's a good thing, right?
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