INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: torn in between.....

 

Author Message
rod
torn in between..... Sep 03, 2002 11:33 a.m.


hi there,

I am about to go to India/Calcutta in three weeks to spend three weeks playing tabla. I have met Pt Anindo Chatterjee a couple of times and up to a month ago I was planning to go and see him(with the approval of my guruji Pt Sarda Sahai of course) but, since I am completly in love with the Benaras style(and Kumar Bose's style of playing), it had crossed my mind that I might instead spend some time with him and make him my teacher whenever I am in India. I love both of them but I thnk I am leaning towards Pt Kumar Bose and his bayan, not to mention the Benaras baj itself....

comments?? ...please, don't confuse too much.

Jake, you say u can't find a teacher out in Finland. For all the reasons Warren mentioned about the need for a guru, why don't you get in touch with a true tabla player in India and evey year take holidays go down there for few weeks, spend ten hours a day practicing and ...the rest is history !!!

Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 02:13 a.m.


Thanks for the idea. When I improve my playing more I can go there and see where I am. I propably go to Europe. Maybe Pandit Sarda Sahai. We'll see in a hopefully near future.
Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 05:03 a.m.


Rod! There is a new two cd set from Pandit Kumar Bose. It's a live tabla solo performance in teen taal. I don't have it, but it should be interesting... It was 26 dollars if I remember correctly. www.khazana.com

If I were you I would go to Kumar Bose. You feel Benares gharana to be the style you want to master. You also get deeper knowledge of Benares, because you're studing also with Sarda Sahai. Sarda Sahai and Kishen Maharaj had the same teacher at one time. If I remember correctly Kante Maharaj (sorry, if I am mistaken)and Maharaj has taught Bose.

rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 08:39 a.m.


Nice one Jake. I just looked at it and perhaps I will wait a little bit until I am in India to buy(it would cost me a lot less considering I have got some 22 items on my basket...quite a few dollars when u look at the total...)

I have called Pt Kumar Bose but he is in Bombay at the moment (going back to Calcutta on the tenth) so I will have to call back then. Fingers crossed all goes well.
It took me a while to really appreciate the Benaras baj(perhaps because when starting to play tabla, speed was more attractive than slow playing) but I can (almost) feel it as part of me now(just love it). I can also (somehow)relate a lot to Pt Kuma Bose's way of playing as if that was the way I was meant to play(hope I am not being too "full of myself"). ...also Shaik Daewood is another one with a style I can also relate(I guess is the bayan of them both, more than anything, that makes feel that way) ....and of course their dynamics on the dayan(specially Pt Kuma Bose's dhas on the sam...er...actually, everything... )

Yes, Kante Maharaj was Kihan Maharaj and Sarda Sahai
Guruji. I would love to hear him play but I guess there is no recording of him. I will ask my master about that.
Sarda Sahai is playing at the Royal Festival Hall(purcell room) on the 15the of this month with Sanju Sahai. He will also be playing maybe in October in Harrow town hall, north London(I probably will be in India for this one)

cheers

Shawn
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 10:03 a.m.


Hi!

I'm a student of Bob Becker (a disciple of Pandit Sharda Sahai in Canada), so I can tell you - stick to the Benares gharana!

Since I started studying with Bob a couple of years ago, I totally fell in love with the Benares style. You are so lucky to be a student of Pandit Sharda Sahai...

If I have the chance to go to India, I will definitely find a teacher in the Benares style as well.

(By the way, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any other gharana! They all have their special characteristics!)

Shawn

rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 10:22 a.m.


I have heard that Bob Becker is very good ! I wouldn't be surprised! I saw him on a video together with Pt Sharda Sahai but he was just keeping time.
The Other person I would like to hear playing would be Kumar Lal. I would like to know if he inherited those qualities that made his father(Sampta Prasad) so special. ...I am sure he did. Maybe I will stop in Varanasi once more.
Of course there is nothing wrong with other styles. It is just the way things are....but still, one day when I have stronger, stronger grounds on the Benaras baj, I will want to know/learn the Farrukabad or Lucknow or Dilli or Ajrara or Punjab style...or hehehe...a bit of all.!!
Shawn
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 10:37 a.m.


Sampta Prasad is incredible! Do you know of any CDs?

solo, or accompaniment...

Shawn

rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 11:07 a.m.



Shawn (Sep 04, 2002 10:37 a.m.):
Sampta Prasad is incredible! Do you know of any CDs?

solo, or accompaniment...

Shawn


There are some at www.khazana.com. the one with brama(spelling ok?) taal is very good. I also have an old tape given to me by a friend where he plays a trully beautiful Jhaptall. Really, really beautiful!!
The lehara is really beautiful too and it is on the harmonium. Just love everything about the way he plays. I will let u know more about it(tape) some other time. I don't have the cover here with me.

Amir
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 02:54 p.m.


Hi Folks,

Let me remind you that since Anindo Ji was a student of the late great Jnan Ghosh the renound musician and ethnomusicologist, he is well versed in ALL styles of tabla playing - Including Benares. Personally, I would try to go see Anindo Ji, that way I could get material from all gharanas. Anindo has some very good material. I took a workshop with him and he gave me things that I will be practicing for the next 10 years. Just a thought.

Warren
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 04:58 p.m.


Well all respects to the guru.
But if you want to learn Benares style then don't go to Anindo-da . Of course he is very familier with many styles but Benares is unique #1 you learn to play tabla like a prize boxer, you sit higher above the tabla on your knees not cross legged. All the strokes are played with much vigor. There isn't much suddlety in Benares style. But if you are athletic and strong it can be a good style to learn and a real workout. You will progress physically much faster with Benares. On the other hand for myself I would choose Anindo-da for the beauty and variety. You are making a choice between the beauty of tabla and the sheer power.
Another more important thing to keep in mind is what kind of attention will you get. And I have a feeling that Anindo may be very popular there but it's hard to know which teacher's class will be more beneficial. I can only say that Anindo is kind and will treat you well, I haven't learned from the other teachers mentioned. I have had lessons from Benares teachers and it's tempting, I was really getting beat down after a couple of hours but it's exhilirating , your arms will hurt!
Warren
http://www.angelfire.com/music3/tabla
By the way there are Benares compositions in the Austin tabla composition database #94 from Vyneet Vyaas
Shawn
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 10:33 p.m.



rod (Sep 04, 2002 11:07 a.m.):

Shawn (Sep 04, 2002 10:37 a.m.):
Sampta Prasad is incredible! Do you know of any CDs?

solo, or accompaniment...

Shawn


There are some at www.khazana.com. the one with brama(spelling ok?) taal is very good. I also have an old tape given to me by a friend where he plays a trully beautiful Jhaptall. Really, really beautiful!!
The lehara is really beautiful too and it is on the harmonium. Just love everything about the way he plays. I will let u know more about it(tape) some other time. I don't have the cover here with me.


Wow! It's been a while since I went to khazana... lots of new things. I ordered 2 Sampta Prasad CDs, the Thirakwa CD, and the new Kumar Bose double CD. I haven't treated myself to some new cds in a while, and this will be quite a treat indeed!

Shawn

Shawn
Re:torn in between..... Sep 04, 2002 10:39 p.m.


Warren, those comments about Benares gharana are a little strong...

I've never actually seen a Benares player not sitting cross-legged, but I suppose that anything is possible. Both my teacher, and Pandit Sharda Sahai sit cross-legged (look at pictures, album covers, etc...).

Also... there are most definitely subtleties in tone, volume, etc... It's not just WHAM BAM BAM BAM ... or maybe you've been listening to the wrong Benares players...?

It's true that the Benares style is strong and powerful, but I would characterise it more as bold and playful. The way you explain it, it sounds like the "rock drummers" of tabla players, as if Benares gharana lacked sophistication, which is really REALLY not the case.

I'm not trying to start a war here...but I think that what you said about Benares wasn't quite right.

Shawn

Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 05, 2002 01:16 a.m.


Shawn! Thirakwa's Drums of India has the greatest playing that I have heard from Samta Prasad(2-3 short pieces=about 15minutes). It's mostly Thirakwa.This cd is from old tapes and the sound quality is not 100%. There are maximum of about ten minutes per piece. There is Amir Hussain also. The playing is of absolute high quality all the way.I have to go home and listen to it once again...
Shawn
Re:torn in between..... Sep 05, 2002 07:06 a.m.



Jake (Sep 05, 2002 01:16 a.m.):
Shawn! Thirakwa's Drums of India has the greatest playing that I have heard from Samta Prasad(2-3 short pieces=about 15minutes). It's mostly Thirakwa.This cd is from old tapes and the sound quality is not 100%. There are maximum of about ten minutes per piece. There is Amir Hussain also. The playing is of absolute high quality all the way.I have to go home and listen to it once again...

Ah! I didn't notice THIS cd when browsing... they have SO MANY. I ordered the Thirakwa Live in Bombay 1964 cd. I'll get this one next time! Strange that the pieces are so short, but it still sounds interesting...

Shawn

Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 05, 2002 10:10 a.m.


Thirakwa's 1964 Live is GREAT! I have listened to it over a hundred times. He is a genius. The way he stretches the beat and the improvisations! Phrasing, spontanity, intelligence come to mind... I feel that one can absorb from it a lot of information, but you can't play that material like HIM. He is a true innovator and in the class of his own.

Enjoy the cd is almost too good to be true!
I don't want to put down other tabla masters, but Thirakwa's expression in tabla solo is something no other player in my opinion have ever reached.

rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 05, 2002 12:07 p.m.


Jake, I wouldn't even try to disagree with u on your last post!! I also find his playing trully execptional. One thing I really admire in a player is the control on the bayan and on the Tirakwa 64 cd, he his just trully amazing how he controls (creates really beatiful sounds on ) the bayn on slow playing. Now, I find that very difficult to do when playing at really slow speeds like he does. Partly, I think has to do with the qulality of the bayn(he is using) itself but we all know that in the end of the day is his playing that does the trick. ...and one good thing about theBenaras baaj, is the need for you to learn to create beatiful sounds on the bayan otherwise playing the Benarasi theka would feel very dull. You have no choice. you really have to learn to play with expression in the Benaras baaj. ...and that is the reason I would prefer to see Kumar Bose at this moment. I find Pt Anindo Chatterjee very exceptional as accompanist. Up to now, I believe he is(maybe) the best when improvising as accompanist..I have seen him doing it and it felt....amazing!!!
There are three people I would like one day to be able to sit down and learn from and they are(apart from my master):
Pt Kumar Bose, Pt Anindo Chatterjee and Rashid Mustafa Tirakwa. The last one because being nephew of the Great Tirakwa, when I listen to him I can hear that he inherited something from his uncle which says just about everything !

please keep posting with your views, has been very interesting so far.
...I still have to contact Pt Kumar Bose next week and if I do end up seeing him, I will also try to visit Pt Anindo Chatterjee just to get to know him a bit better. He is a very nice person indeed.

.

Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 06, 2002 02:00 a.m.


Rod.Kishen Maharaj's Benares theka's bayan sounds are really cool! He has great rhythmic phrasing also. He is one of my favourites. Got o go...
Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 06, 2002 03:18 a.m.


Back to the subject at hand. So... especially Kishen Maharaj recording from the seventies, that is in Gottlieb's tapes is very very good. He's technical side is strong as ever and the tukras. He starts tukras where ever He wants to. Those tukras are always a real joy to listen. I believe he uses His improvisational skills here and there, because it sound so fresh and adventarous. Maharaj has only good recordings, but this one is maybe above all others.
Amir
Re:torn in between..... Sep 06, 2002 10:47 p.m.


Hey I'd like to talk about Rashid Mustafa Thirakwa for a second. I haven't really heard him play but if he is the NEPHEW of the Great Ahmedjan, then why is he adopting the Thirakwa title. Thirakwa was actually an honoriffic title given to Ahmedjan Sahib that esentially means Terekete. It just seems as if he is trying to ride his uncles coat tails. Has anyone heard him play? If so please give me your thoughts.
rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 09, 2002 03:47 a.m.


[but quote]Amir (Sep 06, 2002 10:47 p.m.):
Hey I'd like to talk about Rashid Mustafa Thirakwa for a second. I haven't really heard him play but if he is the NEPHEW of the Great Ahmedjan, then why is he adopting the Thirakwa title. Thirakwa was actually an honoriffic title given to Ahmedjan Sahib that esentially means Terekete. It just seems as if he is trying to ride his uncles coat tails. Has anyone heard him play? If so please give me your thoughts.[/quote]


hey Amir,

This is what the record cover says:

"Rashid Mustafa Thirakwa hails from the Farukabad Gharana, a lineage of the great musicians who have been pioneers in the Hindustani Classical Music, especially in Tabla. Rashid was initiated into tabla at the tender age of seven. He obtained strong grounding from his illustrious father, the late Ustad Mhd. Jaan Khan Sahib and later strengthened his skill under the tutelage of his legendary uncle, the late Padma Bhushan Ustad Ahmed Jaan Thirakwa Khan Sahib. Rashid Mustafa represents the fourth generation of this family and has vibrantly kept the family tradition alive through his own unique style of tabla playing.

Besides performing as an established solo percussionist, Rashid Mustafa has accompanied most of the eminent Hinustani Classical Vocalists, Instrumentalists and Kathak Dancers of India. He has received many awards and accolades for his versality in Tabla performances, including the "Thirakwa Title" by Bhartiya Vidhya Bhavan in 1984 and was also awarded by the late Lord Yehudi Menuin award at Davos, Switzerland."

So, as u can see, he is not trying to use anyone elses name but because it is a title givem to him. This particular line of records is about outstanding disciples of famous masters and him being the chosen disciple of Ustad Ahmed Jaan Thirakwa and having the same title I guess that is why they decided to include it on. The music is great. Take my word for it. I love this record and I consider(the music in it) to be some of my top tabla solos ever.

Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 09, 2002 10:01 a.m.


Name Thirakwa was given to Him by one of His Ustads. Thirakwa's hands danced on the drums and they were compared to the shimmering thunder like quality of a Kathak dancers feet in action, Thirakh.
warren
Re:torn in between..... Sep 09, 2002 03:21 p.m.


Shawn you are more capable of describing Benares style then I. And more correctly.
My knowledge is to limited regarding Benares. In fact I have only seen 3 benares players live. However all 3 sat in the knee position which always stuck in my mind. It is an interesting way to sit (the tabla set between the knees and the feet go behind and you sort of sit on them. I remember asking Vyneet and he said this is the Benares style of sitting so I have just taken it for granted. "Bold and playful" works better for me and no comments should be regarded as negative. What negative thing can be said about Kishan Maharaj?
maybe someone else can shed more light on the sitting position . I am certainly surprised you are not familier with it . If you talk to your guru soon could you possibly ask . I am curious to know if it does relate to Benares style as this performer had told me and I have seen .Also these players I have seen had the strongest hands and loud Ta's on the sur.
Thanks,
Warren


Shawn (Sep 04, 2002 10:39 p.m.):
Warren, those comments about Benares gharana are a little strong...

I've never actually seen a Benares player not sitting cross-legged, but I suppose that anything is possible. Both my teacher, and Pandit Sharda Sahai sit cross-legged (look at pictures, album covers, etc...).

Also... there are most definitely subtleties in tone, volume, etc... It's not just WHAM BAM BAM BAM ... or maybe you've been listening to the wrong Benares players...?

It's true that the Benares style is strong and powerful, but I would characterise it more as bold and playful. The way you explain it, it sounds like the "rock drummers" of tabla players, as if Benares gharana lacked sophistication, which is really REALLY not the case.

I'm not trying to start a war here...but I think that what you said about Benares wasn't quite right.

Shawn


rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 23, 2002 12:52 a.m.


I still find that odd. I realize he might be an outstanding player but compared to an Anindo Chatterjee or Zakir Hussain, who are pretty much unanoumously considered the best tabla players alive today, I would question why he is being given that title. Please feel free to give me your thoughts on the subject.
rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 23, 2002 03:32 a.m.


I didn't write that above...is someone is using my nick name..?.
If it is refering to Rashid Mustafa, then I have to disagree because from what I heard, I think he is just as good as Zakir or Anindojee. It all boils down to personal preferences in the end and who are we to say wether he is or he is not allowed to use a title?
Shawn
Re:torn in between..... Sep 22, 2002 08:36 a.m.


Hi,

I asked my teacher about the sitting position issue. He plays cross-legged, as does Pandit Sharda Sahai. He was surprised when I told him that another Benares player said that the norm is sitting up on the knees.

Basically, it's probably just an issue of personal preference. The knee position means you are higher above the tabla and so, more potential for power...

It's true that Benares has a great sur-ta (called Lao Ta in Benares baj). It's a very important stroke in the repertoire...

Shawn

Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 23, 2002 09:05 a.m.


I agree with you genuine Rod. In my opinion it's not also wise to say someone is the best, because some others say that. Listen to different players and if you feel someone is the best or better compared to some others then say it. I personally haven't yet listened to Rashd Mustafa Thirakwa, but my cd is coming so after a few weeks I can take part to that conversation more. I personally don't feel, that Zakir or Anindo are the best players. Zakir is the best tabla player in fusion that I've heard so far, but when it's classical tabla solo Swapan Chaudhuri is the man in my opinion (todays tabla players). I haven't heard Tanmoy Bose, new Thirakwa or Abhijit Bannerjee, but soon I will. I am also very excited about Nizamuddin Khan's video. That should be something legendary! Swapan's Classics for pleasure (then I have all three Swapan's cds) and Sarda Sahai's The spirit of Benares are also coming. Sarda Sahai is also very good. Listen to cds and make up your minds after that...
Suki
Re:torn in between..... Sep 23, 2002 08:36 p.m.


Hiya all. Has anyone here heard Dheeraj Shrestha play? I'm getting Tabla lessons from him at the moment and he is awesome.
Warren
Re:torn in between..... Sep 24, 2002 01:39 a.m.


As one of my teachers said "I never rate or judge any artists" That's a higher attitude than I can obtain.

Jake your just into Swapan right now and I hate to burst that bubble. For one Zakir and Anindo are my teachers and they are the best to me so I have to be understanding when anyone states otherwise. But I have had a lesson from Swapan and his disciple Subhen
and have spoken to Swapan and seen him perform in the last year. It's nice that different artists should have certain fans that are loyal to them.
Swapan by the way has a very high regard for Zakir.
Zakir is by far the highest sought after accompanist. More famous renowned artists of india request him than any other tabla player.This is not because he is the greatest Fusion tabla player although there is no question about that. He also is the highest paid tabla player averaging about double of most other famous tablaya per concert. There is no question that he is the most popular. And he is still in his prime, still growing , creating , still performing year round. He has done far more concert programs like the "masters of Percussion", Lines Ballet and other ensembles etc. and recorded far more albums and solo recordings then several other tabla artist combined.
Do not underestimate this guy, Anindo and every other tabla teacher I have spoken to have the highest respect for Zakir. Allah Rakha Khansahib stated the he was so proud that his son had surpassed his own abilities, that's no small compliment. And speaking of Abbiji, most tabla maestros credit Allah Rakha and Zakir with bringing the tabla to it's high status today. Remember that not to long ago many tabla accompanists weren't even mentioned by name and pay was low and still is often lower than the instrumentalist. There are numerous fantastic recordings with great artists like Chautar Lal where there names weren't even listed on the albums. Ustad Shafaat Ahmed Khan was quoted as saying thank god for Zakir bhai and many others have commented likewise on his contributions.
Bottom line Zakir has done more for tabla players careers than they could do for thereselves so when people speak of Zakir in a real casual way it's touchie, he must be afforded a special respect. Other tabla masters get pissed if they feel someone is disrespective of Zakir. I have been chastised myself by a great teacher for making the slightest comment that sounded a little disrepectful . For most tabla performers today he is there champion leading there cause. They are very proud of him.



Jake (Sep 23, 2002 09:05 a.m.):
I agree with you genuine Rod. In my opinion it's not also wise to say someone is the best, because some others say that. Listen to different players and if you feel someone is the best or better compared to some others then say it. I personally haven't yet listened to Rashd Mustafa Thirakwa, but my cd is coming so after a few weeks I can take part to that conversation more. I personally don't feel, that Zakir or Anindo are the best players. Zakir is the best tabla player in fusion that I've heard so far, but when it's classical tabla solo Swapan Chaudhuri is the man in my opinion (todays tabla players). I haven't heard Tanmoy Bose, new Thirakwa or Abhijit Bannerjee, but soon I will. I am also very excited about Nizamuddin Khan's video. That should be something legendary! Swapan's Classics for pleasure (then I have all three Swapan's cds) and Sarda Sahai's The spirit of Benares are also coming. Sarda Sahai is also very good. Listen to cds and make up your minds after that...
Bran
Re:torn in between..... Sep 24, 2002 07:03 a.m.


Rod,
I'm also from the States and I'm in Calcutta right now, taking lessons with Pt. Kumar Bose. I also weighed my options about going to Pt. Anindo Chaterjee. My guruji is Zakir Hussain, and so I opted for Benares gharana since Punjab and Benares are both Pakhwaj sur.

I can tell you that my experiences to date have been unbelievable. He's an exceptional teacher and is a great technician.

Email me at ganesab@yahoo.com if you want to chat more about this.

Regards

Branavan

rob
Re:torn in between..... Sep 24, 2002 07:19 p.m.


Id like to note that Warren Brings up some very good points about Zakir Ji. Most people (i'm talking about non-tabla players) have heard of Zakir Hussain. I remember one time Zakir Ji accompanied Buddhadev Das Gupta (note that this guys is one of the greatest Sarodists alive today), and Buddhadev was very greatful because without Zakir there, not many people would have showed up.
Zakir does have a tendancy to play a bit on the lighter side when accompanying but he does have the ability to also play very difficult classical compositions (try listening to the solo cd called "Zakir" this is one of the best tabla solo CDs out there).
Another fact about Zakir Ji is that he is well versed in ALL styles of tabla playing. He can play Ghazal Style (listen to Hariharan's CD "Jiya Jiya Na Jiya"), Vocal, instrumental AND fusion. Not many tabla players can be that versitile.
Jake
Re:torn in between..... Sep 25, 2002 09:06 a.m.


Hello Warren!
I am not saying that Zakir hasn't raised the status of tabla. I haven't heard Anindo, Zakir or Swapan live so my views are limited to what I've heard from cds. Zakir is the name everyone knows no doubt about it. He is best paid no doubt about it. All the top players are great and I stand behind my view. We may have different things that we like and admire in someone's playing.
Warren
Re:torn in between..... Sep 25, 2002 10:17 p.m.


Bran Bhai,
I heard Pt Kumar Bose is an excellant teacher how are his classes compared to Zakirda's
I have changed my classes to be more like Zakirdas. More playing, less talking and more time building up the full compositions piece at a time. My students are picking up faster and retaining more.
Also do many students sit in the knee position
Regards,
Warren,
This Zakir Workshop pics in the gallery on the website http://www.angelfire.com/music3/tabla if you know of or have any good digital pics of Pt. Kumar I will put them in the gallery


Bran (Sep 24, 2002 07:03 a.m.):
Rod,
I'm also from the States and I'm in Calcutta right now, taking lessons with Pt. Kumar Bose. I also weighed my options about going to Pt. Anindo Chaterjee. My guruji is Zakir Hussain, and so I opted for Benares gharana since Punjab and Benares are both Pakhwaj sur.

I can tell you that my experiences to date have been unbelievable. He's an exceptional teacher and is a great technician.

Email me at ganesab@yahoo.com if you want to chat more about this.

Regards

Branavan


Bran
Re:torn in between..... Sep 26, 2002 06:04 a.m.


Warren bhai,

The teaching styles of the two are very different so it's hard to compare them. I took summer sessions with Zakirji, so he would teach the full class together and present material to the whole class.

Kumarji teaches using the Gurukul method, and brings each individual student up at his/her own pace. We have classes from 10 - 2:30 Sat-Mon and each person gets about 5 - 10 minutes in the hot seat in front of him.

Both of them are incredible teachers. You know how Zakirji will figure out your hand position issues after watching you play for about 30 seconds? Kumaji is the same way. Each in their way is patient; each in their way is passionate and very forceful when they want to make their point.

The difference with Kumarji and his classes here are that he has a steady set of students who are receiving talim year round. With Zakirji and his schedule, plus the fact that I live on the east Coast, I do not have the continuity that I would like to have.

As for the seating position:
Kumar Bose himself sits cross legged. All of his students sit cross legged as well. I will ask him about the seating position at my next class and give you his take on it.

Regards

Branavan

Shawn
Re:torn in between..... Sep 26, 2002 08:51 a.m.


Thank you for sharing your experiences with Pandit Bose. I think that I would very much like to study with him if I can get the chance to travel to India for a while.

What sort of compositions is he teaching? Is it mixed? Is it oriented more towards solo tabla or accompaniment, or both?

Thanks,

Shawn
(a fellow Benares player)

rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 26, 2002 12:26 p.m.


I am suprised that warren thinks that Banaras players sit in any other position other than crossed legged. I have never seen anyone(Benaras style) sitting in any other way other than crossefd legged. Maybe in the old days they did but I guess you would feel a bit unconfortable after a while. It is true that if you sit in a higher position when playing u can feel the difference and therefore play harder wich is good for the Benaras style but not really sitting on your knees. But, I have to say that on the other day during the concert of Pt Sharda Sahai and Vishnu Sahai, Vishnu(Sanju) after sometime did(or I thought he did) sit on his knees a little bit. I thought is was more to do with the fact that he seemed a bit tired on his legs.
I will also ask some people in Varanasi if there is any truth in it.

....and to drive you all mad......

BANARAS BAJ RULES !!!!!!

cheers

rod
Re:torn in between..... Sep 27, 2002 07:44 a.m.


Dilli, Farrukabad, Punjab, Ajrara, Lucknow and other players shouldn't take the last line of the above message too literarily. Just me causing some turnmoil and excitment!!

cheers

nobody important
Re:torn in between..... Sep 28, 2002 09:43 a.m.


I hate to bring this up but it bothers me . Swapan was the first Tabla teacher at AACM to stop teaching beginning students . I think it has been very discouraging for the school. It was such a fabled time when beggining students would be inspired to travel across the country to learn from Jnan Babu , Shankar Ghosh and Zakir . Now that type of thing is not offered to beginning tabla students going to the college. I thought that was a really bad change that contributed to a drop in attendance for newbies. Say no more -just wanted to get that off my chest
Bran
Re:torn in between..... Sep 29, 2002 06:48 a.m.


Hi,
Just curious as to who is then teaching beginning students at Ali Akbar Scholl of Music? Is it a senior student of Swapanji or something like that?


nobody important (Sep 28, 2002 09:43 a.m.):
I hate to bring this up but it bothers me . Swapan was the first Tabla teacher at AACM to stop teaching beginning students . I think it has been very discouraging for the school. Now that type of thing is not offered to beginning tabla students going to the college. I thought that was a really bad change that contributed to a drop in attendance for newbies. Say no more -just wanted to get that off my chest

My two cents on this is that sometimes it is better for a beginning student to go to somebody who is not as high profile, but extremely competent, and learn the basics. Somebody like Zakirji, Swapanji, Kumarji, Anindoji, etc. etc. are in huge demand and will not have the time to provide a sound basis on which to build on. Not because they don't know how, but because you'll see them in a very sporadic way due to their schedules.

I find this is true for me for sure.

Having said that though, there's no substitute for watching somebody at this level teach, perform or demonstrate tabla baj. So in that sense I empathize.

Regards

Branavan

Warren
Re:torn in between..... Sep 29, 2002 11:03 a.m.


Hate to disagree, but I think at the least if the oppurtunity is there the student should get there first stage of lessons from the best possible, lesser students can always help a beginner but nothing inspires and sends a student on the right path like learning from an aknowledged master. Those first tabla students of Shankar Ghosh that learned at the college were some great players. I wonder how many semesters a student has to attend before swapan will teach them? I think anyone on the forum that got there first lessons from masters will tell what a great experience it was. It surprises me since Khansahib has always had a class with him for beginners. People pay a lot of money to take time off and go to that college. But why should they go if someone in there town is an OK teacher. In that case maybe your right learn from the teacher in town until you can find out if your worthy enough to learn from Swapan. All the teachers we bring to Austin teach beginners including Anindo. if you are a beginner find Anindo he really enjoys teaching beginners. Actually to him starting students is a service to the music.Sort of like bringing a new flock into the fold. He's such a cool guy . You know he always uses the word "love" freely , love for the music, his guru, his students. He always signs his email or autographs love Anindo. And corrects people if there mind is screwed up musically "why are you not giving any love" that guys amazing.


Bran (Sep 29, 2002 06:48 a.m.):
Hi,
Just curious as to who is then teaching beginning students at Ali Akbar Scholl of Music? Is it a senior student of Swapanji or something like that?


nobody important (Sep 28, 2002 09:43 a.m.):
I hate to bring this up but it bothers me . Swapan was the first Tabla teacher at AACM to stop teaching beginning students . I think it has been very discouraging for the school. Now that type of thing is not offered to beginning tabla students going to the college. I thought that was a really bad change that contributed to a drop in attendance for newbies. Say no more -just wanted to get that off my chest

My two cents on this is that sometimes it is better for a beginning student to go to somebody who is not as high profile, but extremely competent, and learn the basics. Somebody like Zakirji, Swapanji, Kumarji, Anindoji, etc. etc. are in huge demand and will not have the time to provide a sound basis on which to build on. Not because they don't know how, but because you'll see them in a very sporadic way due to their schedules.

I find this is true for me for sure.

Having said that though, there's no substitute for watching somebody at this level teach, perform or demonstrate tabla baj. So in that sense I empathize.

Regards

Branavan


[Previous] [Up] [Next]

SPONSORED LINKS