INDIAN MUSIC FORUM ARCHIVES: Tabla Forum: Chapukinar

 

Author Message
Ryan
Chapukinar Aug 15, 2002 12:13 p.m.


I was reading some postings the other day and there I saw something about the "chapukinar". Is there another name for this bol? Cause when we're playing, you can't say chapukinar...that'll sound a little too odd.

Thank you.

Joe
Re:Chapukinar Aug 15, 2002 02:19 p.m.


I've heard it call "na" & "tak". Chapukinar or Chapki is more of a stylistic discription- not the actual term for the bol.
Ryan
Re:Chapukinar Aug 15, 2002 04:19 p.m.


Na is played as the same way as Ta so that's not the proper name, I suppose tak sounds better. I've heard Ustad Zakir Husain say "tak" alot but couldn't figure out how to play it. Anyway, thanks for the help.
Joe
Re:Chapukinar Aug 16, 2002 01:19 a.m.


You can replace "tak" with "na" anytime. This is the art of being your own player. If you play tabla exactly how your techer taught you, you'll never be a respected tabla player. You can also call it anything you want. you have to remember that the bols are phoenetic and have no real meaning. In the case of playing the phrase takete. "ke" is not actually played like a traditional ke-nor is "te". People get too caught up in what their teacher told them and not into the feel of the music. I've heard great players use tak instead of na all the time.
paul
Re:Chapukinar Aug 16, 2002 11:28 p.m.


i kind of think that playing like your teacher/guru is very important beacuase it is the only way to learn the way the masters did. do you think that the great tabla maestros just added tak whenever they wanted before learning where the proper placement is? they *completely* absorbed their guru's style and they probably learned to recite with correct bols too.
of course there is so much improvisation and substituting bols but doesnt this come after learning
how to do this in a stylistically correct manner? the difference of na or tak can tell you the origin of a composition to some extent.
tak is different because it came from folk styles (i think) so there is no universally accepted bol. na however has a long history and definately is more than a phonetic syllable.
any thoughts?
anyone please correct me if i am wrong
Ryan
Re:Chapukinar Aug 17, 2002 12:57 p.m.


There is this huge difference between na and tak, two totally different bols. Dha has a very different sound now if you replace that with ghe and tak, that is something very different. So, we can't go on playing things the other way. It's great that we actually practice a few things made up by ourselves but the lessons our Guru gave us is the real thing.
Ex- If you're playing in front of alot of people with the tak as na, they'll be like, "what's going on?". So, its good to keep up with your guru.
joe
Re:Chapukinar Aug 17, 2002 06:11 p.m.


I guess you are missing my point. I know there is no substitute for playing the composition correctly-like your teacher taught you. I assumed that was understood. But when you learn a kaida and know it in and out, you then have to give it your personal touch. My point was that there is a way to replace tak with na in any kaida strategically and use it in variations. I have heard different teachers call "ta" -"na", call "tetekete" -"terekete", the whole point of the comment is that these things are interchangeable. The actual bols are just a guide to show you what to play. After you learn it correctly, you can do whatever you want to it according to you style. Also, to say that the use of the bol "na" instead of "tak" is incorrect is a bit pompous-Unless you are a master who knows and has studied extensively all styles and bol patterns in and out. Just because your teacher did not teach that to you does not mean its wrong.
joe
Re:Chapukinar Aug 17, 2002 06:17 p.m.


By the way here is an example of what im talking about:

Dhine ghe ne na ke dhine ghe ne tine na ti ke ne

Using tak now:

Dhine ghe ne ta ke dhine ghe ne tine na ti ke ne

I've heard Masters play it both ways.

Ryan
Re:Chapukinar Aug 17, 2002 07:49 p.m.


First of all, I was not challenging you. Secondly, as I said earlier, I've heard and played "tak" many times before and I still do. All I needed was the proper name for the bol. Believe me, I play things that my Guru never teached me and those bols sound like the same things maestro's throw in here and there. You may use "tak" as "na" but at times, let me be very clear- only at times it doesn't sound right. Thats all what I meant.
I've heard many people play-

Dhindha tin ghe tin"tak"

where others play-

Dhindha tin ghe tin"ta"

There's no problem with that, right? I can see that people from different countries pronounce or say the bols in different styles. I've heard my Pakistani Guru say "tete-kete" and my Indian guru say "tere-kete" but they sound exactly alike cause it's the same thing. But, "tak" and "ta/na" are two different bols and they sound different too.
Once again, I'm not challenging you.

Swara
Re:Chapukinar Aug 18, 2002 03:44 a.m.



joe (Aug 17, 2002 06:17 p.m.):
By the way here is an example of what im talking about:

Dhine ghe ne na ke dhine ghe ne tine na ti ke ne

Using tak now:

Dhine ghe ne ta ke dhine ghe ne tine na ti ke ne

I've heard Masters play it both ways.


Joe, so you use TA KE instead of NA KE. Seems the same bol for me. I was learned to play the bol TAK as a hard closed hit on the shyahi with the 2nd,3rd and 4th finger.

joe
Re:Chapukinar Aug 18, 2002 02:06 p.m.


the "ta ke" can be taken from the kinar, from the sur, closed 2nd and 3rd fingers, between the sur and kinar (the slapping -tuk) or as chapki. This is my point exactly...there is no hard defined way to play the "na ghe" You can change it to suit your taste. And for the record is not the same bol. By replacing the "na ghe" with "tak ke" you spawn a whole new set of improvosations.
Jake
Re:Chapukinar Aug 18, 2002 04:07 p.m.


Listen Thirakwa's 1964 Live in Bombay. I like the way He uses tak in different compositions. There is also very nice balance in His use of different bols in over all structure of solo.
Swara
Re:Chapukinar Aug 18, 2002 04:25 p.m.



joe (Aug 18, 2002 02:06 p.m.):
the "ta ke" can be taken from the kinar, from the sur, closed 2nd and 3rd fingers, between the sur and kinar (the slapping -tuk) or as chapki. This is my point exactly...there is no hard defined way to play the "na ghe" You can change it to suit your taste. And for the record is not the same bol. By replacing the "na ghe" with "tak ke" you spawn a whole new set of improvosations.

You are right,I agree. It is not the same bol. I was a little bit confused because you wrote 'ta ke' instead of 'tak ke' in your example.

joe
Re:Chapukinar Aug 18, 2002 10:50 p.m.


I'm not trying to argue..or force you to see my point. Lets just all keep playing to the best of our abilities! Good Luck!
Ryan
Re:Chapukinar Aug 19, 2002 11:52 a.m.


Great Idea! Lets just practice and try to figure out some new bols to add here and there, also do what we're good at.
Afterall, Practice makes a man Perfect.
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